Overwhelmed by Gardenia Bonsai

[Icydius]

Hi all. I am new to this site/forum. A month ago, my boyfriend bought me a gardenia bonsai for my birthday (It hasn not yet bloomed). The instructions say to keep it moist by watering every 2-3 days and to give it lots of sunlight. I started off with the plant in a bedroom in the front of the house but it only got a few hours of sunlight a day and that was not enough so I bought a grow light 3 days ago. When I received the plant (it came boxed from ProFlowers) it was in beautiful condition (at least to my amateur eye) and seemed well watered. Since then, about 60-70% of the leaves have fallen off. Some are green and crispy while others have turned yellow with brown circular spots. Some of the branches also seem to have the brown spots. The soil appears to have rocks in it and seems to get dry quickly. I thought I was not watering the plant enough so I started watering it everyday (the top of the soil seemed to dry out in about 10 hours). When I water it, the water seems to roll right off the top instead of soaking into the plant. Aren't there any guidelines as to how much water one should give a bonsai (I.e. 1 cup, 1 liter)? I keep the humidity tray with lots of water in it but I noticed on a few occassions flying insects that looked like gnats around my bonsai. Should the humidity tray be filled up with water (it is also filled up with pebbles)? I have been doing research but am highly confused as some information seems contradictory. From what I've read, I've over watered my plant but also not watered it enough. It seems like it could have some kind of infestation although the only evidence I saw were a few gnats 2 or 3 times. I would really love this plant and I to become friends -- especially since it was a bit on the expensive side and was a gift. I am at my wit's end -- literally. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. - Stef

[kdodds]

Sounds like you have a major problem with soil quality. If the water is rolling off the top, you definitely have a very major problem. My suggestion would be to get it repotted into a good, well draining, bonsai mix ASAP. If you can not find one, aquarium or pond "soils" will work very well. Once it is repotted, try not to move it around so much. Initially after repot you probably don't want to place it in a southward facing window, but when (if) it recovers, this will ultimately be the best place for it.

[Icydius]

Thank you

[JTred]

Just thought I'd address a few of your other questions. The humidity tray should be filled with enough water so that it comes just past halfway on most of the pebbles. Also, if you see only a few fungus gnats, I have had some good luck with a water and dish detergent spray on the top layer of the soil. Also, if there aren't many of them you can spray the soap and water, then squish any that you see crawling on the soil or trunk, the water seems to make them less able to fly. They really won't hurt your tree much if there isn't a lot of them (they feed on the decaying organic material in your soil, but will sometimes munch on the roots), but it's kind of weird to have flies on display breeding in your house.

Also, a good way to test when to water your tree is to stick your finger/toothpick/chopstick a few inches into the soil. If it comes out pretty wet, don't water the tree. Another thing to check is how the pot drains. are there any holes in the bottom of the pot to let water out? If there are holes, are they plugged up?

[Cuda52774]

It sounds to me like you have some of those glued on rocks on the top. If that is the case that would explain why the water is rolling off. If not, then your soil is much too compacted and I agree that it should be re-potted into a free draining bonsai mix.

These guys sell some good stuff for not very much.

www.bonsaimonk.com

Cuda

[Icydius]

Thanks everyone for your help!

JTred, I haven't seen the fungus gnats for a few days (possibly a week) but then I noticed very tiny silver/white bugs crawling on the soil. I let the tree dry out so they would go away as the spray I had didn't seem to help. This caused the leaves to get crispy and now all the leaves have fallen off. I will try your soap and water idea next time. There are 2 holes for draining on the bottom and I don't think they are plugged as water has come out when I overwatered it before.

Cuda- The rocks don't appear to be glued on the top as they often fall off when I water the bonsai. The soil could be compacted as I tried to lift the tree up and it wouldn't budge. I thought it was too early for it to be repotted as I have had it for only 2 months?

I believe the tree is still alive as there is a lot of green on the trunk/roots and some of the branches are green. I live in Maryland and experience all 4 seasons. It has been too cold to take the plant outdoors so far so I leave it under a grow light for at least 12 hours a day. Is it possible the light could be burning the tree and drying out the roots? I thought it was supposed to be blooming soon since it's now spring (still mostly chilly for now -- in the 40s and 50s) but if all the leaves are gone, and the buds that are remaining are hard and crispy, will it bloom? I am at my wits end with this tree --I am tempted to toss it!

[Cuda52774]

Thanks everyone for your help!

JTred, I haven't seen the fungus gnats for a few days (possibly a week) but then I noticed very tiny silver/white bugs crawling on the soil. I let the tree dry out so they would go away as the spray I had didn't seem to help. This caused the leaves to get crispy and now all the leaves have fallen off. I will try your soap and water idea next time. There are 2 holes for draining on the bottom and I don't think they are plugged as water has come out when I overwatered it before.

Cuda- The rocks don't appear to be glued on the top as they often fall off when I water the bonsai. The soil could be compacted as I tried to lift the tree up and it wouldn't budge. I thought it was too early for it to be repotted as I have had it for only 2 months?

I believe the tree is still alive as there is a lot of green on the trunk/roots and some of the branches are green. I live in Maryland and experience all 4 seasons. It has been too cold to take the plant outdoors so far so I leave it under a grow light for at least 12 hours a day. Is it possible the light could be burning the tree and drying out the roots? I thought it was supposed to be blooming soon since it's now spring (still mostly chilly for now -- in the 40s and 50s) but if all the leaves are gone, and the buds that are remaining are hard and crispy, will it bloom? I am at my wits end with this tree --I am tempted to toss it!

No need to toss it just yet. It's obviously stressed out but as long as it's still alive there's an opportunity for it to thrive later down the road. Have you done a scratch test yet? Take your fingernail and scratch off a small chunk of bark at the base of the tree. If you see green, it's still alive. If not, it's pretty much toast....

What kind of grow light are you using? I'm still a newbie at all this too but from what I've read the best lighting to use for a newbie is just a plain old flourescent 4' shoplight. My trees are thriving under this treatment and the bulbs are so cool that two of my trees have branches growing up in between the two bulbs just soaking up as much as they can with no ill effects.

I would also extend the time of your lighting to 16 hrs a day. No bulb is a replacement for the extreme amount of lumens the sun gives off so get a cheap $10 timer from wal mart, the kind they use for security lighting, and set it for 16 hrs a day and then you won't have to worry about it.

It would be really helpful if we could get a picture of your tree and a close up of your soil. I'm still a little confused over what type of soil you have.

Be patient and give it time.

Cuda

[Icydius]

Cuda, I haven't done the scratch test as the green is obvious. I will try to attach a picture but not sure I know how! Also, it has a lot of sand on the top now as I was trying to smother the tiny silver bugs that were crawling on the soil. There do seem to be new buds sprouting which makes me happy but at the same time, there are some branches that are completely brown and dry (no green even when broken off). Not sure if that's normal or not. I bought the Agrosun Dayspot Grow Light Kit. It came with a 60W incandescent grow bulb (full daylight spectrum) -- not fluorescent. Should I be using fluorescent instead? When taking pictures of my tree, I just realized why I couldn't take it out of the pot -- it's wired to the pot and the wires are coming out of the drainage holes! Also not sure if this is normal. My pics are not that great, sorry. You probably won't be able to determine my soil because of all the sand on top but it has what looks like bark and rocks in it (also it's wet).

[Icydius]

There are 2 pics from the day after it arrived and then 2 from today. Do you think it's possible to get it back to its original glory?

[img]https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss190/Icydius/100_0029.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss190/Icydius/100_0040.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss190/Icydius/100_0042.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss190/Icydius/100_0050.jpg[/img][/img]

[JTred]

The wires holding the tree in place are normal, whoever transferred it to that pot wanted to make sure that it didn't move before the roots could get settled into their new soil. The best thing you can do for now is to just wait and take good care of your plant. The stuff that is brown will probably not come back (I have some dead branches as well from a recent defoliation), but leave them be for now, wait until the tree has recovered and you are begin to try to shape the tree again. As for the little silver bugs, I have those as well, I'll have to check but I think they may be the larvae of the gnats. They even spread to my bamboo, but I just overfilled the container and drowned them. I've switched to a spray of dish soap and baking soda, and it seems to have killed most of them. Good luck, think your tree will recover given time.

[Cuda52774]

Cuda, I haven't done the scratch test as the green is obvious. I will try to attach a picture but not sure I know how! Also, it has a lot of sand on the top now as I was trying to smother the tiny silver bugs that were crawling on the soil. There do seem to be new buds sprouting which makes me happy but at the same time, there are some branches that are completely brown and dry (no green even when broken off). Not sure if that's normal or not. I bought the Agrosun Dayspot Grow Light Kit. It came with a 60W incandescent grow bulb (full daylight spectrum) -- not fluorescent. Should I be using fluorescent instead? When taking pictures of my tree, I just realized why I couldn't take it out of the pot -- it's wired to the pot and the wires are coming out of the drainage holes! Also not sure if this is normal. My pics are not that great, sorry. You probably won't be able to determine my soil because of all the sand on top but it has what looks like bark and rocks in it (also it's wet).

So, yeah, your gardenia is obviously trying to pull through since it's showing new shoots. Happy for ya! Don't worry about the dry brances. My Fukien had some considerable die back after I re-potted it and when it came back I actually liked the addition of the dead wood. lol.

The reason I was asking about your lighting is that when you use incandescent lighting you have to be careful with the heat coming from the bulb. It's fine that that's the bulb you decided to go with just be careful how close you get your plant to the bulb yet the further you move it away the less effective it is. It's a balance.

As far as your soil goes, it does look to be normal organic nursery soil and once your plant perks back up and is well established again, it does need to be re-potted. My gardenia is in the same soil as yours because I just got mine recently too. Right now your best bet is just to leave it alone and water it when the pot feels light. Start lifting your pot just after watering and then again just before watering to get an idea of how heavy it is. I water mine when the soil is dry on top and the pot is light.

As Jtred said, the wiring is normal.

[Icydius]

Yippee!!!!! I bought a fluorescent light this evening (13 watt = 60 watts or something like that) because I was scared that I might do more damage with the incandescent. Also, it was very close to the plant -- about 6-8 inches away. The fluorescent one is about a 10-12 inches away.

1. Once the tree recovers, will it look thin since it will have many dead branches that will no longer "bloom?"

2. How long after it recovers should I repot it? I thought I read that you should repot it when it's dormant. Supposedly my tree blooms from late spring to late summer. Should I repot it sometime in September? I also read it should be fertilized when it's not blooming and I have not fertilized it yet -- was waiting until the fall.

Sorry for all the questions but some of the information I have been reading was contradictory and confusing. I just want my tree to pull through.

Thanks JTred and Cuda again for all the helpful info!!!

[JTred]

You could probably move the fluorescent closer if you wanted, as Cuda said, the farther away a light is, the less effective it is. If you have an extra lamp or fixture, you can still use the incandescent as well, giving it a bit of distance. Indoor lights usually aren't as good as real sunlight, so it can't hurt to have a little extra. I wouldn't worry about the deadwood for now. The tree will look thinner because it has less growing branches, and you will have to wait until it recovers to do anything. You never know, you may like some of the deadwood, I was in the exact same predicament as you in January, and now some of the deadwood on my ficus is actually starting to grow on me.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Gardenias can be tough, but it looks like you have it under control...

Actual bonsai soil might be a little lean for this tree; I might screen my own soil out of coconut coir and aged pine bark and add that to the gravelly stuff next repotting (which should be as soon as you get it back on its feet) It'll hold more water and nutrient than the real gravelly stuff, and flowering trees appreciate that...

The baking soda is a good mild pesticide to knock out the algae the gnats prefer (not really a fungus). BT var. israeliensis is a good cure for gnat larvae; same stuff as in mosquito dunks, so easy to find, and completely harmless unless you are a fly larvae...

You are getting good advice from the crowd so I'll butt out, but good luck...

HG

[weasel]

I think you got the same plant I got! Actually it was a gift to my husband after lung surgery. Do you think someone who has just had major surgery could deal with a gardenia bonsai??!
Anyway, the plant immediately became mine. And, yes, it began to lose leaves and others turned yellow and then fell off. (See my previous post on all this).
I think I may have things under control...finally. But I am not yet sure.
What has made the biggest difference was that I fed it last week with Miracid. This plant needs an acid plant food. That seems to have stopped the yellowing leaves.
I also water it only about once a week. I water from the top thoroughly, then let it sit for about ten minutes in a sink of water (until the bubbles disappear) and then give it one more watering from the top. And lastly I make sure the water has stopped dripping from the drain holes.
It gets southern sun, and if I'm home, I'll move it to a west window at the end of the day so it can get that sun too. But here in New Jersey we're not getting a super abundance of sun this time of year.
Meanwhile I've done a little reading and know a couple of things for sure: gardenias are notoriously hard to grow well (I've already lost all the big buds) and bonsai are not the easiest plants to grow either. Put the two together and you've got a real gardening challenge.
But we forge on. We do get attached to our plants!
Best of luck with yours. I think it came from the same grower that mine did. The yellow tag is identical!
Weasel

[The Helpful Gardener]

"Organic fertilizer is better than chemical fertilizer because chemical fertilizer will often result in poor soil condition and is very dangerous if not applied correctly. Cotton seed meal, blood meal, bone meal, fish meal or animal and fowl manure is recommended."

John Naka
Bonsai Techniques I

The Helpful Gardener is in complete agreement and would like to state his case for John Naka being the preeminent bonsai master in the U.S. I just extend this thought to more than just bonsai, but I can't say it any better than the master did.

If you are in Washington, a goodly number of Naka-sama's best creations are in the National collection at the National Arboretum. I have yet to see it all (primarily because I see the bonsai and penjing every time )...

[url]https://www.bonsai-nbf.org/site/index.html[/url]

HG

[Icydius]

Thank you mod and weasel! I stopped checking the forum when my plant started getting better. I think it's a lost cause now. Way too many dead branches than live ones. Thanks all for the help!