Roots over rock formation - information needed.
I have successfully rooted a cutting from my Hawaiian Umbrella Bonsai. I grew the roots in water and they are just about an inch long. I would like to be able to grow this cutting and eventually plant it in "roots over rock" formation. I have books I have read about this...but I want all the information I can get before I start this project. Can anyone give me some information about this technique? I would like to know how long the roots should be before attempting to place it over a rock and should I move the rooted cutting into soil now? I still have it in water. Thanks so much!
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Gnome
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lonepalm,
Welcome back, it has been a while. How is your first Scheff. doing? Check your private messages, I have had one for you sitting in my out-box for the better part of two years now.
Since your intended plant for this technique is still so young I think I would simply grow it out for a few years in order for it to begin to acquire some girth and character. There is no need to begin the process at such an early age. Not that you can't but I see no real benefit either.
On trick I have used is to place your rock on top of the soil in a shallow pot. Then fashion an open-ended cylinder, or ring of sorts, that rises above the rock, this ring allows soil to be placed over the rock. As the roots grow the ring is periodically cut down and the soil gradually washed away with routine watering. Eventually you are left with roots extending into the soil of the pot and the ring completely removed. This may take several years to accomplish.
I'm sure others will have different options for you to consider.
Norm
Welcome back, it has been a while. How is your first Scheff. doing? Check your private messages, I have had one for you sitting in my out-box for the better part of two years now.
Since your intended plant for this technique is still so young I think I would simply grow it out for a few years in order for it to begin to acquire some girth and character. There is no need to begin the process at such an early age. Not that you can't but I see no real benefit either.
On trick I have used is to place your rock on top of the soil in a shallow pot. Then fashion an open-ended cylinder, or ring of sorts, that rises above the rock, this ring allows soil to be placed over the rock. As the roots grow the ring is periodically cut down and the soil gradually washed away with routine watering. Eventually you are left with roots extending into the soil of the pot and the ring completely removed. This may take several years to accomplish.
I'm sure others will have different options for you to consider.
Norm
hiy alone palm I have succesfully completed a root over the rock planting with a mature bout 15year old jade tree this tree has crazy root growth rate so I think if ur tree has the same characteristic it would be good
what I did was get the rock
find a suitable postion
then hold the tree in place while someone helped me tape around the existig roots that will begin to hold the rock,make sure the whole rock is covered so that roots grow downwards and inwards then once the taping is done
put the tree plus rock in a deep pot and grow it in sharp sand make sure u fertilise well and in a bout a year u should have a root over the rock.
NB:
the tape should be non adhesive something like the tape used to stop pipes leaking will do well since its got no glue on it
would have posted pics though on this site its hard to post pics imposible for me
what I did was get the rock
find a suitable postion
then hold the tree in place while someone helped me tape around the existig roots that will begin to hold the rock,make sure the whole rock is covered so that roots grow downwards and inwards then once the taping is done
put the tree plus rock in a deep pot and grow it in sharp sand make sure u fertilise well and in a bout a year u should have a root over the rock.
NB:
the tape should be non adhesive something like the tape used to stop pipes leaking will do well since its got no glue on it
would have posted pics though on this site its hard to post pics imposible for me
Thanks to both of you for such wonderfully, informative material. My cutting is very young...just a few months old. I got it from the parent tree that I have had for 3 years. When I pruned it, I saved this particular cutting with young branch and thought I might try to root it. When I became successful with the rooting, I was so excited that I immediately began to think of how I might plant it. I really didn't know that I had to wait so long to actually do this technique. I'm so glad that you have both helped me there. Should I now put the baby rooted plant in some soil? It is still in water....but I think it should be transplanted into some soil. What kind of soil do I need? I read somewhere about using sand instead...what kind of sand? I need your help one more time here and then I will take care of my little seedling. I'm really enjoying this...and you probably can guess that I am a first time owner of bonsai. I wish I could find a club near my home where I could learn more...but I haven't been successful finding one. I'm still searching.
Gnome, I apologize for leaving a response in my inbox for so long. I will take care of that now. I was caring for my very ill father at home and he passed away a year ago. It's been difficult for me to bounce back...but here I am ready to assume my life again!
Thank you both so much....and if you wouldn't mind helping me with the next phase of my little baby plant I would really appreciate it....I just need to know what will be best for it to grow in.
Thanks,
Liz
Gnome, I apologize for leaving a response in my inbox for so long. I will take care of that now. I was caring for my very ill father at home and he passed away a year ago. It's been difficult for me to bounce back...but here I am ready to assume my life again!
Thank you both so much....and if you wouldn't mind helping me with the next phase of my little baby plant I would really appreciate it....I just need to know what will be best for it to grow in.
Thanks,
Liz
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Gnome
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- Location: Western PA USDA Zone 6A
Liz,
My condolences on your loss, the PM is not that important. It's good that you are now able to resume other endeavors.
Norm
My condolences on your loss, the PM is not that important. It's good that you are now able to resume other endeavors.
I don't recall if you re-potted your older Schefflera, if so the mix it is in should be OK for the cutting. I have read that sometimes cuttings rooted in water have a hard time transitioning to a solid medium. I have rooted Ficus in water and pot them up very early, just as soon as I see the white nodules begin to elongate.It is still in water....but I think it should be transplanted into some soil. What kind of soil do I need? I read somewhere about using sand instead...what kind of sand?
You probably could start now but to me it seems a bit like putting a young cutting in a bonsai pot when it really needs to be developed first.When I pruned it, I saved this particular cutting with young branch and thought I might try to root it. When I became successful with the rooting, I was so excited that I immediately began to think of how I might plant it. I really didn't know that I had to wait so long to actually do this technique.
Norm
Hi Gnome,
Thanks for your quick reply. My Schefflera is still in its original pot and original soil. (I have owned it for 3 years). I have not repotted it. (I don't know how!!) I have been very cautious with my Schefflera as it was a gift from my fiance and I don't want to kill it. My fiance's dad raised bonsai in his native Hawaii and I want my father-in-law to be proud of my ability to appreciate and care for my bonsai. If I buy some potting soil, is there a special bonsai mix? Would you recommend that I keep the cutting in water longer? I don't have to rush into any planting if it has not had proper time to develop a good root system. I would also like to learn how to wire branches but I am afraid of hurting my tree due to my novice status. I have several books on bonsai, but without some input from those who have experience, I am afraid to try the things that I read about. If you wouldn't mind advising me on whether I should pot my little cutting at this time, and if so, what type of planting medium should be used. Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions...I really appreciate it.
Liz
Thanks for your quick reply. My Schefflera is still in its original pot and original soil. (I have owned it for 3 years). I have not repotted it. (I don't know how!!) I have been very cautious with my Schefflera as it was a gift from my fiance and I don't want to kill it. My fiance's dad raised bonsai in his native Hawaii and I want my father-in-law to be proud of my ability to appreciate and care for my bonsai. If I buy some potting soil, is there a special bonsai mix? Would you recommend that I keep the cutting in water longer? I don't have to rush into any planting if it has not had proper time to develop a good root system. I would also like to learn how to wire branches but I am afraid of hurting my tree due to my novice status. I have several books on bonsai, but without some input from those who have experience, I am afraid to try the things that I read about. If you wouldn't mind advising me on whether I should pot my little cutting at this time, and if so, what type of planting medium should be used. Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions...I really appreciate it.
Liz
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Gnome
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 5122
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:17 am
- Location: Western PA USDA Zone 6A
Liz,
Do you have any other plant supplies on hand? I have found Perlite, that is readily available an nearly any garden center, to be a good component for young material. Brent (EverGreen Garden Works) use 50/50 Perlite and bark for his plants. And so with you, a cutting does not necessarily have to be in premium material right off the bat but drainage is essential. I have taken to using a coarse, bonsai type, mix for all potted plants, they seem much happier.
Make sure to follow the links in the sticky and check out the section on using kitty litter\oil-dri at Bondsai4me. The link should be in the sticky. Of course ready made bonsai soils are available as well but you end up paying to ship rocks. I think a re-potting is probably in order for your older plant so whether you purchase or mix your own medium for it you should have a little left over for the cutting.
Norm
P.S. Sorry, this post was not as well organized as I would prefer, a little short on time right now. Happy to elaborate on anything that is unclear.
My feeling is that you should get it in soil before the roots elongate too much, an inch long seems like it should be OK. And by soil I don't actually mean 'soil' at all, see below.Would you recommend that I keep the cutting in water longer?
Bonsai soil is a subject that could easily take a whole chapter in a book. Please read the sticky thread about soil and re-potting. Once you have a general idea we can elaborate on any parts that are unclear. In general bonsai soil appears rather coarse to someone who is accustomed to seeing potted plants in the usual commercial potting soil. What is essentially small rocks are used to ensure drainage and aeration.If I buy some potting soil, is there a special bonsai mix?
Do you have any other plant supplies on hand? I have found Perlite, that is readily available an nearly any garden center, to be a good component for young material. Brent (EverGreen Garden Works) use 50/50 Perlite and bark for his plants. And so with you, a cutting does not necessarily have to be in premium material right off the bat but drainage is essential. I have taken to using a coarse, bonsai type, mix for all potted plants, they seem much happier.
Make sure to follow the links in the sticky and check out the section on using kitty litter\oil-dri at Bondsai4me. The link should be in the sticky. Of course ready made bonsai soils are available as well but you end up paying to ship rocks. I think a re-potting is probably in order for your older plant so whether you purchase or mix your own medium for it you should have a little left over for the cutting.
Norm
P.S. Sorry, this post was not as well organized as I would prefer, a little short on time right now. Happy to elaborate on anything that is unclear.
