Round up about Roundup

[opabinia51]

Okay, a lot of discussion in a couple of threads on Round up so, let's concentrate things here. If I can find time I'll look up some peer reviewed material and post the article titles here and anyone can feel free to post their thoughts and any links or articles that they have on the topic.

[opabinia51]

Might as well start this off with a link to an MSDS on Glyphosate:


https://www.kellysolutions.com/erenewals/documentsubmit/KellyData%5COK%5Cpesticide%5CMSDS%5C80967%5C80967-1%5C80967-1_Wise_Up_Plus_Glyphosate_Herbicide_7_29_2005_5_41_10_PM.pdf

[opabinia51]

And I will post that through some non clinical trials some colleagues observed the leaves of plant foliage that had applications of herbicides and compost tea and the compost tea plants had a much higher concentration of microfauna and a much higher concentration of beneficial microfauna.

[TheLorax]

Started here in a sticky titled "RoundUp, things you should know"
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1749

This thread ties into this newest thread on RoundUp-
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7787

A decent discussion on RoundUp appeared here recently-
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=38341&highlight=#38341

I'm sure there are others out there that could be added to this "Round up about Roundup" thread.

Let us bear in mind that glyphosate is but one ingredient in RoundUp.

I don't believe anyone at THG will fall for RoundUp being "safe". It isn't so there's probably no point citing peer reviewed literature.

I also don't believe anyone at THG will fall for all glyphosate products being inappropriate to use under any circumstances as there are always considerably greater evils out there looming over our heads. Quoting myself below-

Like antibiotics, glyphosate is frequently misused, overused, and abused. But also like antibiotics, glyphosate can improve our lot in life but only through restraint and prudent use. I believe there do exist situations in which a product containing glyphosate should be used. I would prefer it be Rodeo or Aquamaster after all other more environmentally friendly options have been exhausted.

40,000 acres of knapweed still come to mind for me. 40.000 acres that will consume more land. That knapweed infestation is easily capable of doubling its choke hold on our environment within 10 years if something isn't done and people weren't exactly standing in line jumping up and down waving to get the attention of their land stewards while salivating at the prospect of hand pulling millions and millions and millions of knapweeds back when that infestation was only 10,000 acres. It would take calling out our entire National Guard to active duty for a few years to hand pull our existing knapweed infestation... and if we hadn't catered to special interest out there decrying the use of glyphosate back when this infestation was only 10,000 acres, we wouldn't be staring down the prospect of having to manage 80,000 acres in the very near future. Somebody do the math please. Chemically treat 10,000 acres or let it get so out of control to prove a point that we're now going to have to chemically treat at least 40,000 acres if not more by the time we can get out of grid lock. More food for thought- all the while this power struggle rages on... more and more of the locally native seedbanks are being consumed and lost forever. Not good to bite off our noses to spite our faces when human health is involved.

Please take to heart the following; As Faith Thompson Campbell (1997) puts it,

We should be humble; we may never fully understand the invasion process, particularly for each of the hundreds of potentially invasive species in each of our many ecosystems. One truth is clear: as time passes, many species will spread to new areas or increase in density if controlling actions are delayed.' Putting 'out of place' plants on plant lists is, in most cases, the only way weed scientists have been able to create effective prevention programs because scientific proof is difficult to come by (Parker and Reichard 1998; see Results for the industry's desire for scientific proof).

source: [url=https://www.brown.edu/Research/EnvStudies_Theses/full9900/mhall/IPlants/Discussion.html]Center For Environmental Studies[/url]

Personally, I'd like all species formally identified as invasive as well as RoundUp and virtually all other pesticides pulled from the market entirely. Leave pesticides in the hands of those with an applicators license.

[cynthia_h]

Until this moment, I was blissfully unaware of knapweed. Is it so bad that not even goats will eat it???

In California, we *do* have an invasive species that goats won't eat: star thistle. I have identified Italian thistle also as "non-goat food."

The "EncycloWeedia" shows pix of many invasive species. I'll take a look there for knapweed.

Scotch broom is another plant destroying landscapes in northern California (maybe southern, too?). Gardening/eco/Sierra Club groups regularly have expeditions/day hikes for the sole purpose of digging up and exterminating Scotch broom. No RoundUp.

Gotta look up this knapweed stuff...back later.

Cynthia H.
El Cerrito, CA

[cynthia_h]

Knapweed and Yellow Star Thistle are both members of the genus Centaureus, which contains an estimated 350 to 500 species.

I found a link re. biological controls for knapweed:

https://www.invasive.org/weeds/knapweed

There are insect predators and root weevils that feed on many species of knapweed. Unfortunately, the particular species found near me, Yellow Star Thistle, has no known (yet) predators.

Cynthia H.
El Cerrito, CA