Moving a Hive of Bees?

[TheWaterbug]

Actually they liked my pumpkins quite a bit. I had lots of them in my field every day, including honey bees and the big black bumble bees. I didn't have anything else in my field, and still they came.

Well, now I know why. I have a beehive in the corner eave of my shed.

Oh dear. What do I do now? If it were off in a tree in the corner of the yard I'd just leave it and be thankful for the pollinators. But this is too close for comfort.

[SPierce]

Actually they liked my pumpkins quite a bit. I had lots of them in my field every day, including honey bees and the big black bumble bees. I didn't have anything else in my field, and still they came.

Well, now I know why. I have a beehive in the corner eave of my shed.

Oh dear. What do I do now? If it were off in a tree in the corner of the yard I'd just leave it and be thankful for the pollinators. But this is too close for comfort.

Oh no!

Hire someone from Braman, if you have one nearby you. They do the pest control for us, and do a fantastic job! They even avoided spraying my garden when they sprayed!

if they're honey bees, keep them, though!

[cynthia_h]

If you want the hive MOVED, call a local beekeepers' association. Bees are under so much pressure (population is plummeting) that we really can't afford to lose a single healthy hive.

If no one in your family is deathly allergic (as I am...) to bees, what is the danger in having them in the shed? I'm asking this in a serious, not a snarky, way.

Cynthia

[SPierce]

If you want the hive MOVED, call a local beekeepers' association. Bees are under so much pressure (population is plummeting) that we really can't afford to lose a single healthy hive.

Ohh! Moving the hive is a wonderful idea. I had no idea that could even be done!

[SPierce]

SPierce,
My husband is a beekeeper, and frequently gets asked to remove hives. When we get to the site, more often than not we find yellowjackets, other hornets, or mason bees (which do not give honey). Make sure that the hive is honeybees before you arrange to have it removed.
Take a picture of the hive, get a photo of one of the bees, and make those photos available to the beekeeper before he/she arrives. It will save you a fee (yes, we charge because we have the equipment) and the beekeeper time and frustration if they turn out to be non-honeys.
Depending on where you are, either the county extension agent will know of a beekeeper or beekeepers' association, or a reputable pest removal company will know.

If I ever encounter some honey bees in an unwanted spot, I will most certainly do so! We mostly get yellow jackets and bumblebees around here.

If you don't mind me asking, though, are there any good books or websites out there in regards to keeping bees? I have heard things through the grapevine, and thought about it myself, but consider myself to be too much of a newb to even consider keeping honey bees. Although, the closer I move to trying to be self-sufficient in my food growing, the more I've been considering it.

[TheWaterbug]

Take a picture of the hive, get a photo of one of the bees, and make those photos available to the beekeeper before he/she arrives.

Thanks! I will definitely have it moved, as I wouldn't want 1,000 bee souls on my conscience!

Here's a full-res picture of the little critters:
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3552590/Bees.jpg[/img]

and [url=https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3552590/ShedAndBees.mov]here's a few seconds of video (13 MB)[/url] showing where the hive is.

Sorry about the quality, but it's a camera-phone, and I was a little wary, as they definitely got more active as I got closer.

They look like honeys to me, but then again I'm not a beekeeper

Marlingardener, what's a reasonable fee for relocating a small hive like this? That shed will be torn down in 6-9 months, so the beekeeper can just cut it out wholesale and take it away without worrying about restoring the building. I might need it braced so it doesn't fall down, but it doesn't need to be fixed, so to speak.

I had someone quote me ~$225 this morning, and I've read elsewhere that some beekeepers will do it for free because they get to keep the hive.

[TheWaterbug]

I had someone quote me ~$225 this morning, and I've read elsewhere that some beekeepers will do it for free because they get to keep the hive.

Hmmm. They just took a look at the photo and video, and now the price is $350

She said, "[It's] been there quite a while, and I can see a lot of staining. There is a substantial amount of honeycomb in there."

If get someone in to take the hive, do I get to keep any of the honeycomb?

[applestar]

I would definitely ask around because when I had a suspected beehive in my driveway, the man I called said he would come and see when he is in my area and make the ID for free AND take care of the removal at no cost to me IF it's honeybees, but if they turn out to be yellow jackets, then I was on my own re: control.

He said if it IS a honeybee colony, it's worth it to him to bring in new brood/blood for his colonies as well.

As it turned out, mine were yellow jackets -- he had stopped by, made the ID, and he called me to let me know. But I did find out. He also made a point of telling me that if I could wait, then wait until hard freeze when most of the colony will die off and it will be easier to get rid of them if I didn't want to use poison ( I didn't) -- obviously, this isn't an option for you since it's early in the season, but I thought I'd mention it.

Another option is to call the local beekeepers association or Master Gardeners Association because they would know who to contact. My local MGA had a beehive removal workshop last summer.

[TheWaterbug]

Update! I contacted my local County Extension (ty Marlingardener), and they referred me to [url=https://www.backwardsbeekeepers.com]Backwards Beekeepers[/url], a network of volunteers who practice organic beekeeping.

A BB team came to my house yesterday with an extra suit, and we all got down to the business of removing my hive. It was a pretty big hive, and we started on the wrong side of the wall, so the whole job took about 3.5 hours. The last hour of that was just cleaning up and waiting for the bees to settle down in their new box, but the actual cut-out took a good 2 hours.

I don't have time (yet) to edit down the hour and a half of video I took (mostly with the camcorder just sitting on a tripod), but here's a couple of stills:
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3552590/BeeVacFullOfBees.jpg[/img]
The bee vacuum was nearly full, and Maurice guesstimated that there might be 30,000 - 40,000 bees inside.

He shook most of them into the hive box, and then after Geoff put a few more frames into the box, Maurice gave the bee vac box a gentle knock to get all the remaining bees to the bottom of the box. So this is about 1/3 of the original load:
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3552590/BeeVacPartiallyFull.jpg[/img]

After all the bees went in, we let them sit for awhile. Here's a fuzzy, grainy closeup:
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3552590/HappyBees.jpg[/img]

They're now in their permanent home in Topanga.

[applestar]

Fantastic! It's kinda cool that they brought you the suit and you could watch up close. Looking forward to more pictures. Thanks for postingthem.

[TheWaterbug]

Fantastic! It's kinda cool that they brought you the suit and you could watch up close.

Heh. Notes for next time:

1) The suit doesn't include shoes or gloves. Those need to be supplied separately. Boots are better than low-top shoes.

2) Bees can sting right through cotton socks.

3) Bees can sting right through canvas part of your gloves.

4) Bees can even sting right through the suede parts of your gloves if they work at it hard enough.

5) Bees leave a pheromone at the sting site, telling all their sisters, "Hey, sting this guy RIGHT HERE!"

6) The bee hood only works if the wearer isn't stupid enough to lean forward and put his face right up to the mesh. If he does that, the bees can sting him right on the chin.

All in all, bees are really cool when they're not actually stinging you.

[SPierce]

very cool! awesome that you got to watch them and see the bees! did you get to keep any of the honey??

[applestar]

OMG How many times did you get stung?

[TheWaterbug]

OMG How many times did you get stung?

Only 5-6 times. Once on my chin, once on my left hand, and a cluster on my right hand. My right hand is still a little swollen and itchy.

I finally got around to editing the video down to ~8 minutes, so here it is (click the pic for video on YouTube:
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbZ7E196OTo][img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3552590/FillingAFrame.jpg[/img][/url]

[applestar]

Thanks for the video!
I emailed the link to my kids and am going to send them to some friends when I get to my computer.

I couldn't get over how the nearly empty vacuum box looked after they dumped out the bees, illustrating just how full it HAD been.

I would love to see comments from experienced bee keeping members re what they saw of this colony and the job involved in removal.

PS: I remembered James/jal_ut once posted his bee hive moving experience so I'm looking for that thread but I can't find it right now....
PPS: I did find [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18417]this thread[/url] with a bee story from JONA and one from me

[TheWaterbug]

very cool! awesome that you got to watch them and see the bees! did you get to keep any of the honey??

Yup!
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3552590/Honeycomb_web.jpg[/img]

It's a light honey, and there are some flavors in there that I can't identify, but it's very tasty.

I've been sneaking into the kitchen and putting it on bread with some butter for a midnight snack.

[Sage Hermit]

I'm gunna need to inspect that honey comb for safety protocol. Thx

[applestar]

Sage, what does that mean? Are you trying to make off with the honeycomb?

Waterbug, I'm holding out my buttered toast, could I have a taste?

[jal_ut]

Neat story. Removal from a structure is a job and if its going to take more than an hour it is not worth it. I don't blame many people who will only do it for a price. It is a different thing to remove a new swarm hanging in a tree, than removing an established colony.

A bee suit should include cowhide gloves with gauntlets a veil, a pair of white coveralls, and boots. Tuck the coveralls in the boots or tie them at the bottom so the bees won't climb up under the covies. OK, bees won't sting white as a rule. Of course there is always an exception. Bees cannot sting through cowhide gloves. I don't like to get stung and have many times worked the bees for hours with out getting stung. Sometimes though one will get under the veil because it shifts or something and gives them an opening. Then I am going to get it.

Here is a story for you:

[url=https://donce.lofthouse.com/jamaica/catch_a_swarm.pdf]Catch a Swarm[/url]

[TheWaterbug]

Here is a story for you:

[url=https://donce.lofthouse.com/jamaica/catch_a_swarm.pdf]Catch a Swarm[/url]

LOL! I was thinking, "Who's this crazy guy who's _allergic_ to bees, and still willing to got through all this effort to adopt a feral swarm?!?!?!"

Then I realized it was you

[evtubbergh]

I know it's an older post but I found this and that is very cool. Thanks for the video

[JONA878]

regarding bees......This is a story that I wrote for a local magazine a few years ago.
It revolves around a well known local character who was a Bee Master in every way.




To many who have spent a good part of their lives in this area the name George Wakeford will bring a smile and a knowing nod to the head.
George was a pure Sussex man born and bred.
He was a woodsman and countryman in the true sense of the word and for a good part of his life the most respected of men when it came to handling bees.

I first met George when I worked on a fruit farm in Wisborough Green. Over fifty years ago now but the memories serve me well in the stories and tales that he told of life through the eyes of a man of the soil.
George used to supply us with bees for the fruit blossom and one particular year he had installed the dozen or so hives around the orchards edges.
“ Keep an eye on em lad…and give us a call if they be up to mischief.”
He never explained what ‘ up to mischief ‘ might be , and I was not canny enough to enquire.
A few days later as I walked to work one morning I became aware of a high pitched hum from the hedge that bordered a paddock near the farm yard. As I got closer I could see, deep in the hedges branches, a huge dark football that was distinctly moving. A massive swarm.
I ran for cover …I'm no fool.
George’s calm voice when I called him assured me that all was ok and that he would call that evening to collect the offending bees.
The day was hot. Sticky hot.
So early in the evening when I answered the door to Georges knock I was down to T-shirt and shorts.
He himself had allowed his shirt to be without a tie and his sleeves were rolled high., though he still retained his flat cap firmly on his head.

That cap would hold many a queen bee I was later to discover and his wife would warn anyone entering their house not to open any stray matchboxes they should come across as they could well be the temporary home to a lost or injured bee.

Anyway….
“ Ah lad. Give me a hand will you ?”
“ Sure George”
I followed him across the field carrying the straw skep that he had dug from the interior of his old car.
He himself carried a contraption that emitted a slight trail of smoke as we made our way to the hedge.
It was only as we got near to the destination that I realised that I was not that well dressed for getting within the flight-path of several thousand flying stingers.
To my anguished enquirery all I received was
“ don't worry lad, they’s be on ‘oliday”
Georges words at the time didn’t really fill me with any sort of comfort at all and I confess that by the time we got to the central spot I was feeling terrified.
“Ere lad, hold this” He gave me the skep minus its woven top.
“ Hold it their lad and keep still”.
He then puffed a few streams of wafting smoke over the ball that was humming noisily to itself in the hedge while all around the constant buzz of airborne troopers threatened to persuade my flight instinct to take control.
He then reached into the depths of the hedge and pulled the branch holding the living ball clear of the side. He bent the branch over slowly until it was poised a couple of feet above the skep that I was holding in my trembling hands.
THEN HE SHOOK THE BUGGER.
I could have died.
I was frozen.
The main ball of bees fell with a weighty thud into the skep while countless thousands took to the air in a ceremonial war dance….well to my mind that’s what it was. They did not sound happy anyway.
“ They be alright Lad…they wont sting you.
And he was right. Not one sting. The air full of black bodies, many crawling over my bare arms and legs, and not one sting.
George placed the skep down on the ground covered it with the lid, leaving just a small gap on one side
And said he would be back once it got dark to collect it.
“ Mums in there and they’ll all go to her once it quietens down “.
And so it was.
Even his bees followed their master in gentleness and peace.
A memory that will stay with me forever of a man who was so in tune with nature..a gentle man in every way who was a the epitome of ‘ A Man of Sussex ‘.

[Ozark Lady]

Wow, Jal you wanted those bees bad!
Most folks that are allergic to any insect that stings, runs like crazy from all stinging critters.

I don't know if you had other bees or not. But, I plan to start several queen raising nucs this year. And if a swarm presents, I will cage a queen and take her with me. When the bees get in there and find a queen they will stay. Then each day, I would be able to harvest more... I know making splits and re-queening while removing them. That large of a swarm should have yielded you several splits.

Thank you, very much for saving the bees and not just poisoning them, like lots of folks would have done.

According to bee forums lots of folks lost bees; some lost 18/20. Some lost all they had. I personally lost 2/3 hives and only have one remaining. It is going to be an expensive year to buy honey! My nucs will grow and hopefully be full hives by next winter, or I will need to combine them to get them through.

My one remaining hive is loving the temps in the 70's the last couple days, they look good.

[applestar]

I love both the stories -- JAL and JONA. Thanks so much for sharing them.

Ozark lady good luck with your bees. Was it the hyper cold winter we had, or more of the same unknown ...or combination? Is it that -- like us with our overwintering gardens that are not surviving -- this years arctic cold has been such a change from the past few years of warmer winter that we have had in some regions?

Regionally, I believe there have been areas that got colder than ever, falling below the threshold of survival, areas that normally don't get frost that did, areas that have been super dry with persistent drought, and areas that got more rain than normal. All told DIFFERENT than "norm" and requiring different practices. There has been an upsurge in new bee keepers too, though perhaps even old timers were taken unprepared.

I remember in the abnormality WARM winter a couple of years ago, bees stayed awake and depleted their honey/food supply so that keepers that didn't feed them during the winter lost their bees.

[Ozark Lady]

One hive was... most likely beekeeper error and the cold.
The second (my favorite colony) apparently some animal unblocked the entrance, allowing a lot of that extreme cold air to get inside. And I didn't check them daily, so I don't know how long it was off before they died.
The surviving hive had a different front entrance blocker, but since losing that second hive, I find that I have to check the front entrance on it, and at least a couple times a week I have to put it back on.
I believe that a coon or possum smelled honey and tried to get into the hives. Those front entrance blockers are in there pretty good.

Some colonies are milder mannered than others. The second hive that I lost was a hard working, but really, really mild mannered hive of bees. Of course, they were in cluster and did nothing when their entrance was messed with. But, they were the most pleasant of all to work with.

We were hit really hard, the worst winter in many, many years, possibly ever. We almost never get enough snow to make a snowball, and we had weeks of deep snow, and we still had snow in shaded areas yesterday! And the temperatures, they were so low it was like we were back in North Dakota, but not prepared for it... my plumbing froze, first time in nearly 20 years.... it held until the temp plunged, and plunged lower.

I will definitely put fencing around my hives when the temps drop so that they could die if entrance is opened.

Two hives had mice nests in them, but one of the two survived, so I don't think the mice did it. I found no mouse damage in there at all, just a nest, maybe they moved in after it died? I don't know.

[valley]

Greetings, So, what was the deal, are you keeping the hive?

Richard

[imafan26]

Tis the season. The beekeeper at the garden said that the apiary will swarm soon. I asked if the swarming could be prevented. He said it is hard to keep them from swarming. He said just prepare the new boxes and if the swarm is found shortly before they really settle in, they can be moved.

[Countryladiesgardens]

Nice video, we are beekeepers and have successfully moved a swarm of our own bees to a new hive. Here is the video link https://youtu.be/8pRXGvR91-4

[TheWaterbug]

I finally got around to editing the video down to ~8 minutes, so here it is (click the pic for video on YouTube:

Well, they're back. 3 years after the cut-out, some bees have decided that it was a pretty good place to live after all, and they've re-colonized the shed.

My neighbors have asked about my plans to remove it, because their pool patio area is just on the other side of the fence, and "my" bees are spending a lot of time at their picnics.

I'm thinking I should have Backward Beekeepers come back in, but that this time I should keep the hive in a box, and just move it about 30 feet so it's not bothering anyone. I think I have a pretty good spot for them; I just have to turn off the sprinklers in that area. Any tips for first-time beekeepers?

A few months ago, while visiting the neighborhood llama (near another hive) I got stung on the upper lip. I don't think I'm allergic, because I had no respiratory or other systemic issues, but I _am_ pretty sensitive to the venom:



Despite my best efforts, I look nothing like Angelina Jolie!

[Countryladiesgardens]

Ouch! Looks like you got stung pretty good there! I haven't been stung yet, and we've had bees for a few years now. My sweetie has got stung a few times, but our bees are generally friendly. They do not seek out things to sting because they die after they do that. If you are slow and steady around them you shouldn't get stung. Advice for first time beekeepers? Join your local bee club and go to regular meetings. You will find everything you need to know there. Also do research online and watch a lot of Youtube videos. Find beekeeping forums, and of course you can ask us anything, and we will try to guide you in the right direction. Beekeeping is fun but there is a lot you need to learn preferably before getting bees. Sounds like the bees at your place really enjoy where they are. Good luck catching them again, you should contact the people that helped you out the first time around. Seems like they did a great job in the video! Good luck!

[TheWaterbug]

I just ordered my very first bee suit, and sometime next week I'm going to drive up to Los Angeles Honey Supply Company (no company website ) and buy some hives. The same master beekeeper that did the 2011 cutout will do this one as well, with me assisting this time.

Just for reference:

• The suit was $78 ($100 with tax and shipping).
• A "large" hive, assembled with 10 frames (no plasticell foundation) is $43
• Four "mediums," assembled with 10 frames (no plasticell foundation) are $32.70/each = $130.80
• Hive top is $18.25 and hive bottom is $18.80
• Standard smoker is $38.50
• "Good" hive tool is $8
• I need to buy some paint for the hive exteriors.

I'll use existing boots and gloves, so I should be able to get started for just under $400, including tax and shipping, but excluding gas and my time. LA Honey seems to have very good pricing. Other folks are selling assembled hives for $60-70 each. Though I do wish LA Honey offered them painted as well. I'd pay a few bucks for that.

There will also be a suitable donation to the volunteer beekeeper for his time and expertise.

Wish me luck!!!!!

* this time I'll make sure to seal up that wall afterward!

[Countryladiesgardens]

Sounds like you are ready to go! Did you look into joining your local Bee Club? You can learn a lot from beekeepers who have been doing this for awhile. Good luck with your bees, hope the experience will be enjoyable like it have been for us these last few years!

[ElizabethB]

Great stories and videos. Thanks for sharing.