annafaie
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Finished compost looks like.....?

Should my compost look like potting soil when it's ready or more like dirt and bits of crunched up leaves? Can anyone post a picture of their finished compost?


Thanks! Anna

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hendi_alex
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I really appreciate your question. It got me to thinking, and sometimes that is a good thing.

First of all, I was thinking, what does a person mean by [when it is ready]? Does that mean ripe, fully broken down, or simply ready to use. Then the thinking continued about organic matter in soil, humus, and the equillibrium between humus loss and humus build up. I would assume that the addition of compost serves many purposes, but the build up of humus must be high on the list.

For me, compost is ready, when I'm ready to use it. What is composting after all? To me, it is the collecting of organic matter, placing it together, and managing it until the material breaks down until nutrients become more readily available. The main problem with adding compost before it [is ready] would IMO be the loss of nitrogen as breakdown continues in the soil. But isn't that what happens anyway, no matter what level of decomposition the compost is in when placed into the garden? The organic matter continues to break down until eventally it is no longer there, and what organic matter is there at that point came from the continuous inflow of orgain matter to the humus cycle.

While thinking about your question I did a little on line research and stumbled across what appears to be a great resource. I think that it is an e-book so won't post the link here. But the book is called Organic Gardener's Composting by Steve Solomon. The author has what may be some radical ideas, not sure, as didn't investigate, and they are not the focus of this particular book. But his chapter on maintaining soil humus and nutrients is very informative. He also gives an interesting recipe for adding organic fertilizer that is made from 4 parts any kind of seed meal, one part bone meal, one part lime, and 1/2 part kelp meal. Claims that it will do wonders for most soil when applied at a rate of 1 gallon per 100 sq. feet, plus a couple of handfulls under transplants or under hills. This non copyrighted book can also be viewed at a site called soilandheath.org or you can just google the title and author. It tells how to make really good compost, but goes further with how to enrich the soil using organic methods. I'm going back and read the chapter more slowly and will skim the whole book as it appears to be very informative.

Anyway after all of this rambling, here is what my compost looks like after being started last winter. I don't turn the pile much and so the piles do not generate a lot of heat and the breakdown is slow compared to a hot compost pile. Also, I am no kind of compost purist, but do keep a steady supply of organics going to the compost pile and then moving toward the various beds and plants.

Leaf fragments are constantly getting scattered among the ripe compost.


[img]https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3116/3229930996_6d473f932f.jpg[/img]

A bigger pile, and once again, the leaf fragments are a bit misleading. They are perhaps only 5-10% of the volume of this mostly very dark crumbly stuff that has texture about 3X coarser than premium potting soil.


[img]https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3504/3229080235_9cd8322185.jpg[/img]

annafaie
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Thanks so much for the description, info and pictures! That helps me greatly.

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Ditto,
I'm a visual learner. Seeing is believing.

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Gnome
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Anna,

Here is a picture of some of my finished compost with a quarter dollar for comparison purposes. This has been sifted through a mesh screen of approximately 1/2 inch to remove the larger chunks which have been incorporated into the next batch. The texture is smaller than 1/2 inch as the screening process not only removes the unfinished material but helps to reduce the stuff that is ready. I don't screen all of my compost but I do screen and store some, mostly for starting seeds and occasionally other potting purposes. I never purchase ready made potting soil.
[url=https://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=composteh2.jpg][img]https://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9559/composteh2.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Norm

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gnome,
This is good looking stuff.
Just like the pros make in the bags.

why do you sift/screen?

Dad used to do it that way, but I've not found it necessary.

Do you find it helps for starting seeds?
Is it just for the seed starting reason or because it looks cleaner in the garden, or what all does it help with?

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Gnome
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2cents,
gnome,
This is good looking stuff.
Just like the pros make in the bags.
Thanks. :D
why do you sift/screen? ... Do you find it helps for starting seeds?
Is it just for the seed starting reason or because it looks cleaner in the garden, or what all does it help with?
If it is going to go into the garden I don't bother. For starting seeds I prefer a more uniform texture without big pieces. I sometimes use this as a component of potting mixes as well and again don't want large chunks in my, often, small pots. As I said, I don't buy potting mix, this serves as part of mine.

Norm

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applestar
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Gnome, if you don't mind my asking, what is your recipe for seed starting mix? 8)

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Gnome
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applestar,

I don't really have a set recipe for seedlings, or anything else for that matter. A simple mix might be 50/50 sifted compost and Perlite. If you have visited the bonsai forum you may know that bonsai is my main focus and I blend my own medium from various ingredients.

During this process I sift the individual components into different sizes. The smaller particles are too fine for most of my trees but I hate to throw them out so I have been using the 'fines' for seedlings and cuttings, it seems to work well. So this material often ends up as a portion of my seed mix as well. It all depends upon what I happen to have on hand at the time.

More important than the actual components is their function. I insist on good drainage even for seedlings. Although such is definitely slower than my general mix, it still drains better than the peat based stuff sold at nurseries.

Norm

rot
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..
I try to do what the gnome does, sift some and store it. Mix it with some dirt for seeds. I too am using what's on hand.

Most of my stuff is spilled in beds and on the lawn or mixed with dirt for planting experiments unsifted. Not too many leaves are left but bits of avocado skins, their pits and sticks laced through out though.

I like to use some still rough and lumpy stuff along the roof line so during the 3 months of rain the runoff doesn't erode the beds under the eaves.

The ceremonial peach pit just goes from bin to bin.
..

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Rot,

How long has that peach pit been hanging on?
Are there other OM that just won't break down?

Perhaps a thread here for OM that lasts over 12 months, just a thought.

cynthia_h
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"Slow-to-Decompose Ingredients."

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9918

and peach pits are *definitely* slow; mine still show no signs of degradation, even after ≥2-1/2 years in the pile.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

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hendi_alex
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Most of the time my peach pits sprout in the rich, moist enviroment. Maybe yours is from a pickeled peach? Those that don't sprout, do tend to stay around for a long time. My biggest trouble maker in the compost is acorns. At least half germinate and are for ever coming up in pots and beds, when the compost/leaf mold mixture gets used before the acorns/oak trees die and decompose. The hardwood twigs are also very persistant, but as one poster noted, they help keep the soil loose and only get tossed aside if over a few inches long.

rot
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..
I've had the ceremonial peach pit for a couple of years now. I always find it at the bottom when I'm spilling compost somewhere on the lawn or garden.

The seed I get growing in my compost is from the squirrels. Damn bird seed gets into everything. Most of it gets turned back into the pile to feed other plants. I'd rather they sprout while in the bin than after mixing and planting.
..

SHamilton
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Anna, I live in Richardson also. I grew up in WI where my grandfather and then my mother were avid gardeners. When we moved here when I was a teenager, neither of them could make Texas dirt produce because of the differences in the clay between regions. I suspect they didn't have the advantage that we do in forums!

I am currently working on my fourth season gardening myself, and have relied heavily on advice online, but particularly the compost advice in Texas has been excellent. In town, we have to do it right or we'll be dealing with rodents, fire ants, or odor. Also, if we do it right, the amendment to our veggie garden will really make that clay break down well, and increase drainage. So far, I am really impressed with what I'm getting out of mine. I only wish I had more room!.

I'm turning my pile every three days or so, and I've just added bone meal and humus to the mix to heat it up. Didn't do much with it over the holidays so I'm getting it active again. By next week, I'll be sifting out what I need, and that will reduce it by more than half. By then I hope I'll have more yard waste to add, along with my shredded paper, to build it up again quickly.

Look forward to learning about your progress, so nice to hear someone in my area composting. Are you veggie gardening, or landscape?

annafaie
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Susan - I am veggie gardening. So far it is an addiction and I sure hope I'm good at it b/c if not, the withdrawl will be hell :wink:

Anyway, we sifted both raised beds (had been layered and composting since early Dec) and our large heap (kitchen scraps and oak leaves and turned once a week) and low and behold we got both raised beds filled with some to spare! And our left over un-decomposed stuff is enough to fill the large heap up again (I'd say 4' diameter circle and about 4' high). I was so pumped! It took us all day on Sun and most of Mon to get it all done but it is so rewarding to look outside and see my beds filled with dark, moist organic matter!

Now....we've got squirrels. And they are destructive! So, I can't plant until my husband builds these large, tall, wooden frames lined with chicken wire that will sit on top of my raised beds to keep them out. I've got lettuce and brussel sprouts transplants as well as onion sets to plant and I will be damned if the squirrels dig them all up while I'm at work.[/b]

SHamilton
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Yes, it is soooo addictive! You started your seedlings already- I'm so jealous! I'm getting some dirt hauled in this week, hoping I can get my teen boys to help me haul it where it needs to go.

The squirrels suck, and we have to net them out as well. My husband says they won't go anywhere they can't figure out how to get out of and bird netting kept them out last year, both seasons. He had to build a framework, too. It's pretty out there today, but I'm a writer with projects due and can't get at it just yet, hoping Friday when the kids are home and I won't be able to get any writing done anyway!

What do you use for heating up your compost? How much room are you using for it, and how close is it to your garden? Did you find any grubs this year? I have to use the eastside of my home, so my area is pretty limited. I'd love it if you'd share pics with me as you go along this season, and share what is working for you. Look forward to hearing from you, Susan

annafaie
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Bird netting, huh? Where do you get that? Is it more or less expensive than chicken wire? Is it more attractive looking? I can see my garden out my kitchen window so the prettier it looks, the better :-) Please post pictures of your setup as well. I'd love to compare our "methods" and get some ideas.

The front of my house faces South so my garden is in the back yard against my back fence. It's the sunniest spot available to me. Our front yard is completely shaded by several large trees including a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE oak tree. Wonderful in the summer but sucks for us in the Fall. We have to rake leaves (or pay someone to) 3 times each Autumn. Good thing we're composting now b/c we once had 18 trash bags of nothing but leaves and acorns. Now all that goodness stays out of the landfills and in our garden!

So....the backyard has a few trees but neither are too full and it gets pretty good late morning and afternoon sun. I'll take pics soon and post them :-)

My heap is located on the east fence in our backyard and is only 30 feet or so from our garden. We used construction cloth in a circle/bin and we hold it together with zip ties. When it's time to move/turn the pile we clip the ties and move the circle over a few feet and hook it back together with new ties and shovel it all in. I think it's probably 36" high and about 4' in diameter? Or close to that....

My heap JUST NOW got hot...maybe a week or so ago. Before the ice storm we decided to try and heat it up using cottonseed meal but couldn't find any at Home Depot so we just got 6 or so bags of this Manure and Humus mixture from Home Depot (like $2.50/bag). We mixed in about 2 bags into our heap and I think that's what heated it up. Prior to that I was just adding oak leaves, lots of melon rinds, lettuce, kitchen scraps (grapefruit rinds, avocado skins, daily coffee grounds and filter, toilet paper rolls, vegetable trimmings) and bulk coffee grounds from Starbucks occasionally. When we sifted the whole heap this weekend it was really warm in the center and I was SO happy. My husband just laughed at me!

In the raised beds we did layer composting. We built the first bed in early December and layered it with oak leave, coffee grounds, oak leaves, goat manure, oak leaves, coffee grounds, oak leaves, vegetable and yard trimmings, goat manure and so on.... Then, about 1 week later we built the second bed and used all the same stuff as in the first bed without the goat manure (we ran out on the 1st bed). Here and there we would add another layer of leaves or coffee grounds. When we bought the 5 bags of manure/humus we added about 2 bags to each bed and lightly turned it under. That was about 2 weeks ago. Then, this past weekend we sifted it all and had really good results.

I kept having this fear that the compost wouldn't be ready and I would have to wait several more months to be able to plant but it looks like we did something right! I know some posters might say my compost might be too "hot" right now to plant but the goat manure had been sitting out for a while and the manure/Humus mixture we bought seemed very aged...not fresh...or new...or whatever words you use to describe hot, stinky manure :-)

We found LOTS of grubs and worms....I was also really excited about that and my 2 1/2 year old wanted to hold the worms and take them to the garden as we found them. She's such a little tomboy and it was so cute! She kept saying "They are my friends, Mama!", "They are cute.". She's a little gardener in the making!

SHamilton
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So glad to hear from you, I'll definitely post pics once we've set up again. Tore most of the framework down to "re-create"! I would assume the netting is much less expensive, found it by the roll at Home Depot and I think it was around 7-14$ for quite a bit. Hard to work with because it wants to stick to you, but it looks nice, wears well, and doesn't cost much, and it's effective so we like it.

I'm wondering if I remember right about the oak leaves, seems to me I heard somewhere they were poisonous to your compost, but I used them first year. I just never would use them again after I heard that, now I wonder if it was in my head, can't remember where I heard it. No trouble for you?

Earthworms are great, but grubs can be destructive. I thought I had a problem when I started working in my new plots, and asked the mngr at Callaways, evidently we all have them to some extent, but if there's more than 5 in a sq ft, it's considered a problem. I didn't have that many, and just take them out and discard as I see them.

My house faces the south, also. My backyard is all pool so there is no way to grow back there, but wish I could. My compost is quite a bit closer to my garden. It didn't bother my topside veggies, but I'm attempting to grow my root veggies pretty close so hope it works.

I use a combo of shredded, non-shiney paper, like newspapers and those pesky cash-advance checks from credit cards(I love the irony!) to mix with yard waste, kitchen scraps, and coffee grounds. I use bone meal every so often, and I buy that compost tea and mix it for a mound drench if it doesn't heat fast enough on it's own. The hotter, the fewer ants. I just read that adding food grade DE (available at Callaways) makes your compost such that when you add it to the plot, the leaf eating pests are deterred. Something about how the DE goes into the root of the plant. Hope it works! I also tried the boiling water thing on the ants at the end of last season and it worked so good I was mad I hadn't tried it earlier.

I add organic humus from the store, but am wondering if it keeps its nutrient value, as the bag I'm currently using has been around a year.

I should have something to show you the beginning of next week. Wish I could contact you since you live so close! What side of 75 are you? Our kids go to Berkner. Hope that's not too much public info!

Let me know what you find out about the oak leaves, if I'm wrong I sure am wasting a substantial amount.

It's really great to be able to converse with you, have a great day, I'll be back tomorrow.

annafaie
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I'm off to research the oak leaves thing b/c if they are then I'm in big trouble! I'll let you know what I find.

We live on the west side of 75 near the library and city hall. Sounds like you live on the east side :-) My husband went to Berkner!

Ok, off to research and will post back soon.

annafaie
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After a few quick searches in this forum and on google, it seems that oak leaves can be poisonous to grasses and corn but are otherwise ok for veggies. I saw several mentions of walnut leaves being poisonous, though....maybe that's what you're recalling?



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