Fun With Mystery Tomatoes

[kayjay]

I have a mystery tomato and I'm excited to see if it bears fruit and what it'll look like.

A few months ago, I started 4 types of tomatoes. One of them was Rutgers, one of them was Brandywine.

In late April/early May, I up-potted them. A while after that, I noticed that one of my Rutgers was clearly potato-leafed like the Brandywine. So obviously, I screwed up my labels when I transplanted.

Fast-forward to now, and I have 2 big PL plants. One of them appears to be a Brandywine like the ones I had the last two years, but the other (originally labeled Rutgers) has a ton of flowers already. There's no way a Brandywine would flower this early. So it's neither a Brandywine nor a Rutgers. The other Rutgers I have is regular-leafed like it's supposed to be.



So I assume I didn't screw up the labels, and I got an oddball seed in the seed packet.

[Lindsaylew82]

Yay! I like surprises!!

I'm wondering if it's Stupice!

[TomatoGirl]

I had this happen before. It was from a packet of heirlooms, and they were supposed to be Orange Wellingtons. However I noticed some of them were growing with potato leaf like yours. I contacted the seller who really didn't know what had happened but ended up with some of the potato leaf too. Ended up being another orange/yellow tomato and still to this day I do not know what variety they are. But the taste was so amazing that I kept the seeds and have grown them every year since. They are now one of the two varieties I grow every year. I'd love to know what they are. Deliciously sweet and smoky flavour they have. And I just love how hardy the potato leaf varieties are.

[digitS']

I have had a few "mystery" tomatoes, including some from purchased seed.

The best one so far was in a packet of gift seed that was supposed to be Woodle Orange. Well, that is a big orange tomato but the fruit from my plants were little red tomatoes! Because it was early maturing, manageable size, and tasty fruit -- I grew it and saved seed for about 4 seasons. Then! There was a plant with orange fruit.

Everything else was the same but that recessive color finally showed up! The fruit still wasn't large so it isn't Woodle Orange but who cares? My DW doesn't. She now thinks it's her favorite tomato. I planted 4, this year and last .

This year, I had a regular leaf Bloody Butcher. I'm delight with that variety for earliness, flavor, long season, health of plants, etc. It's supposed to have potato leaves! Once again, my wife ... she hates the name: Bloody Butcher. Well, the mother plant was one of those but this plant has some genetic differences. How about a different name? I sure hope that the other qualities are the same but it may take several years of seedsaving before I can rule out recessive traits. I'm hoping that there isn't too much weirdness involved .

Steve

[Backroads]

I swear, every time I order tomato seeds (heirloom or otherwise), I never get what I think I'm getting.

It's so much fun!

To add to the mystery, apparently I didn't clean up my garden plot last year as well as I thought I did and now have a troop of volunteer tomatoes. Obviously they're descended from last year so at least I have a set to guess from. I have so many I gave away quite a few seedlings advertising with the tomato mystery.

[kayjay]

Here's a little update on my mystery 'maters.

Here's one of the first Brandywines just staring to grow.

20160708-brandywine (Mobile).jpg (65.03 KiB) Viewed 16741 times

I found another one on the back of the plant that has its usual boat shape.

Here's the fruit on the other plant:

20160708-toms (Mobile).jpg (71.9 KiB) Viewed 16741 times

[Lindsaylew82]

Here are my mysteries!

This is supposed to be Black Cherry:


They're not Indigo Rose either.

These are supposed to be German Red Strawberry, but they're not that either!


And another:

[Duh_Vinci]

That last one - beautifully "fused" piriform!

Regards,
D

[Lindsaylew82]

I'm saving seeds from these double fused ones in hopes of encouraging the trait. Not only are the beautiful, they are DELICIOUS!

The indigo ones are pretty tasty as well!

[TomatoGirl]

Beautiful tomatoes!! Yes, those are definitely not black cherry. I've seen them before on a website, but I cannot remember the name. They only change colour on the parts that get the sun, like a sun tan.
All my tomatoes are still green. Jealous of your ripe ones!!!

[digitS']

KayJay, this is a fun topic.

It's been a month since that update.

How about another?

Steve

[kayjay]

Oh, I almost forgot about this thread.

90% sure they were Brandywine, but I am still amazed by how early they were, and how there was minimal cracking and cat-facing. Nice round fruits. Seeds saved for next year!

Here they are; the three pinker ones at the bottom:

20160807-tomatoes.jpg (37.22 KiB) Viewed 16383 times

[Boboe]

Here are my mysteries!

This is supposed to be Black Cherry:


They're not Indigo Rose either.

That top one that's half purple and half yellow is called "Blue Gold Berries" in the Baker Creek catalogue. I bought a packet of these seeds a couple years ago, but had a terrible time keeping the seedlings alive. They weren't hardy as young plants, at least the two years I tried them.

[digitS']

This is still a fun "topic." And, it's a fun hobby!

The tomato plants from that long-ago Woodle Orange seed were just about the most productive in my garden last year.

I again have tiny seedlings of them and that regular-leaf Bloody Butcher -- except it's too early to know what leaves they will have beyond the seed leaves, but soon!

Steve

[TomatoNut95]

Hello everyone! I am new here. This spring I purchased some dwarf Micro Tom seeds off eBay. I planted two seeds. Both germinated, and I was so excited! The plants are supposed to only grow to six inches high! My two seedlings grew....and grew...and grew! The eldest plant is about 3 1/2 to 4 feet tall now! Haven't the slightest idea what they are!! The green fruits too big to be cherries so it is probably a small or medium fruited type.

[pepperhead212]

Welcome to the forum! Whoever sold you those seeds probably didn't isolate the blossoms, or the plant, which the seeds were saved from, and they crossed with a larger tomato, nearby. The percentages of crossing are low, but all it takes is one!

[TomatoNut95]

Thanks! I plan to save the seeds from my mystery tomato and see if the come true to type. If not, then I suppose it would've been an accidental cross. But even if the plants were even half a Micro Tom, wouldn't the plants be shorter? These are big!

[applestar]

I’m not sure how the micro dwarfs work, but generally speaking Dwarf genes are recessive, so they are only 25% expressed at F2.


Simplified version —

AA-regular x BB-dwarf

F1 = 100% AB-regular

F2 = 50% AA, 25% AB, 25% BB

[TomatoNut95]

Wow, you're smart! (A Micro Tom is a super dwarf at about six-inches) sounds like you're the perfect person for me to talk to about possibly breeding my own tomatoes! I will post a thread about that later. Thanks!

[pepperhead212]

Tomatonut95, Applestar has a lot of posts about hybridizing tomatoes, which you may find useful.

While the original dwarf tomato gene may be a recessive, I'm sure that the Tiny Tom has been stabilized, given the number of places that sell it, and how long it's been on the market. If only 1/4 of the seeds produced the advertised product, 3/4 of the customers would want their money back!

On the subject of dwarfs, here's a link you may find interesting. These are not micro dwarfs (not sure what the purpose of these are, unless you are into bonsai), but they are stabilized varieties. And they give good info on them.
https://www.victoryseeds.com/dwarf-tomato-project.html

[TomatoNut95]

Great! Thanks, I will look for those posts! No, bonsai's aren't my thing-I just found the super shortness of the Micro Tom fascinating. I'm highly addicted to interesting tomatoes of all sorts.

[applestar]

Just going to knit-pick a tiny bit — I’m interested in crossing them, and eventually stabilizing to create new OP varieties for fun. Not to hybridize - create hybrid varieties which is a little different. Hybrid varieties are created by developing two parent varieties that when crossed, results in F1 hybrid offspring seeds. I don’t really like the idea of not being able to save reliable seeds, even if the hybrids carry some advantageous traits.

In the above example, I was assuming accidental cross of two stable or at least ‘stable for stature’ regular and micro varieties.

IF stabilized, the self-pollinated micro dwarf would produce seeds with nearly 100% BB.

I hesitate to say because my tomato seedlings are struggling and not at — “OK they are planted in this season’s forever home” — stage yet, but I do have a few micro dwarfs — Aztek, Pinocchio Orange, I think Jochalos?, and (possibly micro) Totem F1, ...oh and someone else’s experimental cross — growing.

[TomatoNut95]

Ok, so I was thinking of crossing my Black Beauty with my Yellow Perfection to see if I get a bi-colored black/yellow fruit. Think that would work? How many generations would I need to save out to make sure my creation stays stable?

[applestar]

- Antho in the Black Beauty is dominant and will show up in the next generation seedlings as purple/dark stem color and at least as sprinkling on shoulders of fruits. In fact , I have heard that antho tends to creep into the saved seeds of other varieties, and there is higher need for isolating blossoms.

- Antho expression is variable but apparently you can increase concentration over generations by growing many and choosing to keep seeds from plants that exhibit best expression.

- Red is dominant so you’d have to wait until F2 to see yellow.

- I have to review how bi-color genetics combine, but with Pink Berkeley Tie-dye in the ancestry, I’m guessing there is a higher chance of bi-color/mixed color fruit — I have a nagging feeling you need pink/clear skin for the bi-color but I might be mis-remembering this — maybe that was green when ripe fruit.... I can’t find specific mention of epi/skin color for Black Beauty — only that it has red flesh.

- You’ll have to work back up to the larger sized fruits I believe.


My understanding is minimum F7, F9-F10 is better for ensured stability. It has to do with % and statistics.

[TomatoNut95]

Wow! A black shouldered yellow tomato would be gorgeous! So how to begin: do I rub the Yellow Perfection blossoms onto a Black Beauty blossom or vis vera? Or does it not matter which way?

[applestar]

Not quite.... but I’m no expert, though I guess I’ve been “bitten by this bug” since 2014.

Did you find this thread yet?
Subject: Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

[TomatoNut95]

Wow. After reading that, I'd say you are an expert! Ok, I did some thinking and decided I will use Yellow Brandywine instead of my small-fruited Yellow Perfection. And use Black Beauty for the pollen donor. Thing is I still can't understand the correct time to pollinate the blossoms. And what about foliage? YB is potato leafed, and BB isn't- so which trait is more dominant?

[TomatoNut95]

This is my mystery tomato by the way.

[TomatoNut95]

Whoops uploaded that one pic twice! My bad.

[TomatoNut95]

Here's the foliage

[TomatoNut95]

Well everyone, my 'mystery tomato' turned out to be just a small, round red one. I wasn't pleased with how it handled- first the plant stems split and I had to prune the plant down, then the fruits had bad splitting after a heavy rain. However, the fruit seemed to burst with flavor! It was very good, actually. But I'm not sure about keeping this variety, perhaps it's better suited to other areas, like up north. I saved the seeds from the fruit anyway. I might grow it out again this fall or next spring to see if it comes true to type and see how it handles again.

[catdaddy66]

I was a bit sloppy with my labels and have 8-10 that are a complete mystery to me... Healthy, vigorous and totally mysterious varieties lol

[pepperhead212]

I only have a couple that I may have mis-labeled, but they are extras I put in pots where some didn't sprout, and it looks like I didn't put the right label on them. But once things start producing, I'll figure them out, because I have some that are properly labeled of all of them - those extras go to a friend, along with a number of others, and I'll eventually tell her what's what.

[digitS']

Funny about "mysteries."

The mystery from a Bloody Butcher that I referred to above, I quickly lost interest in . It was such a mundane tomato. I know it wasn't out in the 2021 garden; nah, not in 2020 either I suspect.

The one that was supposed to be a Woodle Orange, I've continued to grow forever! I guess that I could go back and check the receipts from years ago but I suspect that I know where it came from - an outfit that no longer sells seed. Ha! The same scoundrels who sold me some melon seed that wouldn't sprout!

Well, it's okay. DW still likes Forever Mystery tomato. A little too mild flavored for me but what the hay.

Steve