HelpfulGardener.com

The key to stopping fungus problems to allow beneficial fungal and microflora to grow. Aerated compost tea do a really great trick. In some places you can buy these teas but, usually you have to brew them youselves.

If you try to kill most diseases in the long term you will most likely lose to an arms race. So, work with nature, it has been controlling disease for millions of years and is very good at it.

I have Green Light's "Rose Defense" and have brought it to the computer so that I can enter information from its label into this post.

"For Control of Blackspot, Powdery Mildew, Rust, Spider Mites, Aphids, Whiteflies on Roses on Ornamental Plants.

"Active Ingredients:
"Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oil...90%
"Inert Ingredients......................................10%

"Bring this product to room temerature before mixing. Shake well before using.
"Dilution Rate: Mix 1 ounce (2 Tbsp. [approx. 15 mL]) in 1 gallon of water [approx. 4 L] above 55 degrees."

The label cautions against disposing of unused product in intertidal areas or where it could reach bodies of water. The product is toxic to fish, according to Sunset's Western Garden Book.

Sunset (p. 667): "Neem oil (Rose Defense and others): Used to prevent and control black spot, powdery mildews, and some other foliar diseases. (Also used as an insecticide and miticide.) Toxic to fish."

Also from Sunset (p. 685): "Azadirachtin, neem oil (Bioneem; Fruit, Nut, and Vegetable Spray; Rose Defense; others). Azadirachtin (neem extract) is derived from a tropical tree (Azadiracta indica). It repels pests and, once ingested, interrupts their growth cycle, killing larvae as well as adults. Effective against aphids, beetles, caterpillars, grasshoppers, leaf miners, mealybugs, root weevils, whiteflies, others. Neem oil (primarily the oil of the neem seed) controls insects in egg, larval, and adult stages; it also controls mites and some plant diseases. Mix with warm water before spraying. Both azadirachtin and neem oil can kill nontarget insects such as honeybees and lady beetles. Toxic to fish."

I have used Rose Defense on my roses a couple of times this season. I also have lots of visiting bees. I carefully time my use of the neem product and apply it to the plants LATE IN THE AFTERNOON, after the bees have "gone home for the night."

I have observed bees visiting the plants the next day, but by then the product has dried overnight. I still have lots of bees visiting; they enjoy not only the roses, but my lavender, blackberries, and wild (well, volunteer...) valerian. They've also visited my yellow squash and zucchini plants, b/c those are setting fruit. Based on the name of at least one product (Fruit, Nut, and Vegetable Spray) named by Sunset, this oil is safe to apply to edibles. Unfortunately, other than Rose Defense being 90% neem oil and the dilution rate in water, I have no data re. a "safe" strength or purity of neem oil to be applied to edibles.

People on the Indian subcontinent have used the neem tree and its leaves, twigs, branches, and oil for millennia, both for personal health and for other applications.

This is all the information I have; I'm glad I found this thread.

Cynthia H.
USDA Zone 9, Sunset Zone 17

It takes very little Neem Oil to do the job. This is again, read and follow the directions. Works wonderfully, I've been using it for years with great
success. It's one of those things that you rarely have to use if you have good balance in your garden.

Hey everybody...... great site!

FYI - while neem doesn't seem to have much effect on spiders overall, I can attest to the fact that a direct hit upon black widow spiders will ultimately kill them...... although I wish I didn't have this knowledge. I have killed a dozen or so juveniles already this year with neem - as a test.

To Cynthia - a couple posts up - my concern with your pre-packaged 'neem' spray would be the 'inert' ingredients. Neem oil alone is not harmful to fish. Who knows what is hidden in that 10%?

where can I find neem oil?

can I find it at home depot or lowes?

Amelia-

I was told by the person at the nursery I bought the Neem Oil from that H20 is the inert ingredient. I have no way of verifying this.

I too was worried about the 10% of inert ingredients when purchasing the product.

Jason

I've not seen the Green Light brand in my area, but Ferti-lome's Rose, Flower & Vegetable Spray is 70% NEEM. (Unlike 90% for Green Light) I've been using it on my vegetables and am very pleased. Are all the bugs gone? No..............but this is the most bug free organic garden I've ever had!

Try to get Dyna-Gro

https://www.bustan.ca/product_detail.asp?menuID=5&SID=33&PID=680

Thanks, I'll check into that for next season..........as I have more than enough to finish this one.

I was out of town most of last summer when I found that my shade house was hit by a very bad case mealy bugs, over 300 plants had them and I lost around 10. not bad but not good,but after I started to use neem oil I didn't have mealy bugs, as the plants started to flower I found that the bees and butterflies still came around I even had more bees than before, I mix neem with water so its not as strong but I spray 2 times a week, this summer I will take care of the shade house my self to make sure things are OK, I won't be with out neem oil it helped save all my plants.

Bear

I used Neem all Summer and had very few pests in my garden. The only one it didn't work on was the Squirrel...... .....but the hot wire took care of him!!!!!

I just read through the thread, and thought there were some basic assumptions made by some, but not shared by others. So a little 101, beyond where it comes from.

Raw neem oil contains all the anti-feedant, growth regulating, and other sophisticated goodies. You are not going to see it at home depot. Google dyna-grow, and I think there is a brand called einstein oil. They are sold as "leaf polish".

The "neem oil" sold on most store shelves and labeled as an insecticide is basically just oil. It's neem oil minus the neem. It works! But so would mineral or vegetable oil.

There is also an extract that contains the "main ingredient" (I think you need them all together).

My bottle of dyna grow disagrees with the dyna-grow website on concentration. But here is my recipe. Does not burn plants like the "original recipe".

1qt warm water

0.5-1 tsp of neem oil

.25-.5 tsp soap

Add the neem oil and soap to a bit of the water, then use a hand blender to make an emulsion (VERY IMPORTANT). Then add the rest. In a sprayer, the emulsion will hold for days, so you will get uniform tiny droplets, and no big, suffocating globs. oh yeah, when you scale the recipe up, you don't need a bigger blender. As long as you have oil, soap, and a bit of water, you are good. It will disperse perfectly into the bigger container.

I learned this summer it doesn't phase ladybugs - or their cousins, the squash beetle. You still have to pick those off by hand. (chopsticks helps)

Picking off ladybugs is a crime! It is punishable by aphid infestation.

Ladybugs, also called lady beetles or ladybird beetles, are a very beneficial group. They are natural enemies of many insects, especially aphids and other sap feeders. A single lady beetle may eat as many as 5,000 aphids in its lifetime.

Peace, Dono

P.s. hopefully you were talking about picking off the squash beetle.

yes, the squash beetle, not the ladybird beetle. They are very very closely related. For a week I thought I was blessed with a swarm of ladybugs. Until I looked closer and watched them eating my kabochas! I think it's the only herbivore of the family.

It's not the adults that make my skin crawl. I just crush them with my fingers. It's the freaky looking larvae.

Smells stinky - __ -

Toil wrote:I just read through the thread, and thought there were some basic assumptions made by some, but not shared by others. So a little 101, beyond where it comes from.

Raw neem oil contains all the anti-feedant, growth regulating, and other sophisticated goodies. You are not going to see it at home depot. Google dyna-grow, and I think there is a brand called einstein oil. They are sold as "leaf polish".

The "neem oil" sold on most store shelves and labeled as an insecticide is basically just oil. It's neem oil minus the neem. It works! But so would mineral or vegetable oil.

There is also an extract that contains the "main ingredient" (I think you need them all together).

Please explain further: I have no idea how one could have "neem oil minus the neem." So far as I know, there is one compound from the neem tree currently available for sale to the general public as an insecticide. It may be marketed under different names, but it's all the same thing. I'm really stumped by "neem oil minus the neem." I buy cooking oil, which has never had neem in it; could this be what you're recommending in the recipe you provide?

The scientifically isolated "active ingredient" from the neem tree itself (Azadirachta indica, one of two species in the genus) has been named, not surprisingly, azadirachtin. This is what kills the insects and has those anti-feeding, growth-disrupting qualities that we employ to protect our plants.

This is how WikiPedia begins its article on azadirachtin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azadirachtin):

"Azadirachtin is a chemical compound belonging to the limonoids. It is a secondary metabolite present in the neem tree seeds. Azadirachtin is a highly oxidised tetranortriterpenoid which boasts a plethora of oxygen functionality, comprising an enol ether, acetal, hemiacetal, and tetra-substituted oxirane as well as a variety of carboxylic esters."

This natural chemical, used in traditional Indian medicine for thousands of years, wasn't synthesized until 2007. I think, from the above description, it's clear that azadirachtin is a very complex biochemical compound.

The article further states:

"It is now known to affect over 200 species of insect, by acting mainly as an antifeedant and growth disruptor, and as such it possesses considerable toxicity toward insects (LD50 (S. littoralis): 15 µg/g)."

S. littoralis refers to Spodoptera littoralis, the Egyptian (or African) Cotton Leafworm, a major pest on vegetables, fruits, flowers, and other crops in Africa and Mediterranean Europe (this from an entomological abstract and WikiPedia both).

Therefore, the phrase "LD50 (S. littoralis): 15 µg/g" means that, when these insects were exposed to azadirachtin, it took only 15 micrograms of it per gram of body weight of the Leafworm to kill half of them. Thus, they were very susceptible to it.

However, in mammals--or at least in rats--the LD50 was >3,540 mg/kg, "making it practically non-toxic," according to WikiPedia. (Math and unit conversions not provided in this post. )

Normal dilution rates for using neem/azadirachtin as a pesticide are 1 ounce of neem per gallon, or 7.8 mL per liter, of water.

The commercial product I purchased which contained neem oil (labeled as azadirachtin) was/is GreenLight's Rose Defense. I purchased it at a local, independently owned garden-supply store. I've also seen it at Pastime Ace Hardware near here. (I only go to HD as a last resort and have never been into a Lowe's.)

Basic info on Rose Defense is available at https://www.pestproducts.com/rose_defense.htm . Unfortunately, GreenLight seems to have changed the Rose Defense formulation since I purchased mine: the label on my container says 90% azadirachtin, not just 70%, as the current web page states.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

I'm not sure about "rose defense". The green light product I have is "hydrophobic extract of neem oil". It contains no aZadiracthin (spelling? Sorry on my phone)


Azadiracthin is NOT the only active compound in raw neem oil. There are many. So many, that it is basically impossible for an insect species to develop resistance. BUT, azadiracthin alone is just like any pesticide, in the sense that it takes just a few generations to become resistant.

The general confusion is caused by labeling laws and pesticide companies trying to cash in.

Thus, dyna grow and Einstein oil, to avoid having to ruin the product for cash, do not label it a pesticide. They call it leaf polish. Neem oil is not a regulated substance - you can find neem oil face cream fir instance. But ALL pesticides are regulated, and active compounds must be isolated and named. With real neem oil, that isn't feasible. So much is going on in raw neem oil it will be years before we understand it.

So no, my recipe is not vegetable oil, although that would work for many scenarios. My recipe is for a powerful spray of raw neem oil, soap, and water. It should be used sparingly outdoors IMO as it can do more harm than good by reducing food sources and possibly ruining pollen for bumblebee larvae. It's also a powerful anti fungal, so constantly spraying the soil around roses could cause more problems than it solves. A tarp would not be overly cautious.

So don't get confused. Pesticide companies want you to mix up statements regarding neem oil with statements regarding their neem products. They don't necessarily apply. Neem extracts do what the label says and no more. Real neem oil does that, and a whole EdItEdload more. If it doesn't congeal below 65 degrees or so, it's not neem oil.

Let me know if there are any more questions. I'll be at home this week and I can look for sources. I've read them, but that doesn't help you, does it?

This is great info. Hopefully it will work on slugs--I have an infestation that I have been fighting for years. I'd put out beer which worked pretty well, but it is a problem when watering or if it rains. I have some slug bait, but I am not sure I want to put it in my vegetable garden.

Is it possible to put this on my fruit trees as there is a plague of fruit flies threatening Oregon produce?

Slugs happily gobble neem down.

What is the efficacy when sprayed directly on squashbug eggs?

I would not expect results from treating eggs with neem oil.

I skimmed this thread,and I hope I'm not asking questions that have been answered...

There are those TEENY tiny white/translucent bugs crawling around in the soil of my new houseplants. They're round and the size of a pin prick.What are these? They're too small to photograph with my camera.

Would neem oil take care of gnat larvae? One of my plant has gnats flying around it and I tried setting out a cup of cider vinegar and sprinkling ground cinnamon on the soil to no avail. I'm now just trying to catch 'em with fly paper which looks kind of gross hanging from the ceiling =(

I actually have neem oil for first aide reasons,but how would I dilute it so it's safe to use IN the soil?People have stated dish soap,but is that only for the stems and leaves?Do you spray it on the soil or can I just use the dropper tool that comes with the oil?

Missyjean, those are probably the larva of the fungus gnats you see flying around. Fungus gnats are not the same thing as fruit flies, which is why the vinegar didn't work.

The simplest solution, and what I recommend you try first, would be to allow the soil to dry out a bit more between waterings. Fungus gnats live in wet conditions. (For instance, they live in the soil around my birdbaths, because I dump the old water and replace it with fresh every day.) Let the soil get dry down to about 1/2" below the surface, or even a bit deeper.

You can use the soap solution as a soil drench. It shouldn't harm the plants. Just be sure to use soap and not a detergent. Most dishwashing liquids are detergents, because a detergent cut grease better than plain soap. Read the label carefully, before you use anything.

Neem oil would work as a soil drench, too.

Personally, although many people here seem to have good luck with cinnamon, it has never worked for me against insects.

So soap as in the by-product of oil and lye? Or sodium laureth sulfate?

Thank you for your response.

Soap as in Ivory soap or pure Castile soap. I use Dr. Bronner's unscented liquid soap, myself. If you can't get a liquid soap, you can dissolve some shavings from a bar of soap in water. I would let the shavings soak in the water overnight to soften. You only need a teaspoonful or two in a quart of water.

I've heard that some people have used Murphy's Oil Soap, but I've never tried that on my plants, so I don't know if it might damage them. I don't know what other ingredients are in the Murphy's.

So I have only seen one gnat today! I hope that means the neem is working.

That stuff sure does stink,though! They should market it for weight loss. One good sniff of that will kill your appetite for the whole day!

I have learned my lesson not to plant anything in a container far too large for it's roots.

I found this online and I think it is good advice...it says neem oil soap but it should be the same advice for neem in general.

Using Neem Oil Soap - Precautions

First the no-no’s: Do not use neem oil soap on drought stressed plants. It should not be used on new transplants, and recently rooted cuttings. Because of potential phototoxic problems it is wise not to spray neem oil soap on plants while they are exposed to full sun. Use it early in the morning, better in the evening hours. Avoid using neem oil soap with the air temperature is much above 85F.
Because neem oil soap is in fact an oily substance, it can cause problems for certain plants because of the way it filters the sun to the leaf surface. This “phototoxicity effectâ€

Gnats - since you mentioned them - more help please. My husband is just about ready to throw all my plants outside because of the gnats. I tried the drying of the soil. I tried sprinkling with cinammon. I tried a cinammon stick in the watering can in addition to a bag of chamomile tea - all to no avail.

Do you think the Ivory soap would do the trick? I'm about at my wit's end.

I AM AN ORGANIC GARDENER. I USE NEEM OIL AND HAVE FOR A FEW YEARS NOW. I HAVE BEES A PLENTY IN MY YARD. IN FACT I AM ALLERIC TO THEIR STING. SO I HAVE TO BE CAREFUL AND WASPS ALSO. TOO MANY OF THEM. BUT THE NEEN, WHEN PUT IN A BOTTLE ATTACHED TO YOUR HOSE, AND WHEN IT DISPERSES WEAKLY, IT DOES NOT SEEM MY BEES AND WASPS ARE HARMED. I GOT RID OF A PROBLEM WITH SOME WHITE PUFF TYPE INSECT LARVAE ON MY ARECA PALMS. I LIVE IN TROPICAL VERY SOUTH FLORIDA. BY MIAMI ON THE SOUTH EAST COAST OF FLA. WE HAVE MANY BUGS HERE, AND THINGS YOU HAVE NEVER EVEN DREAMED OF OR SEEN. USING THE SPRAY ONCE AND THEN TWO WEEKS LATER, LIGHTLY DOSED, DID THE TRICK AND MY ARECAS ARE FIND AND HAPPY AGIAN NO BUGS. I HAVE MY LITTLE LIZZARDS AND TOADS AND A FEW SNAKES, AND LOTS OF BIRDS ALL LIVING IN MY CERTIFIED WILDLIFE HABITAT AND CERTIFIED STATE AND COUNTY GARDEN. NOTHING HARMFUL IN HERE, PLENTY OF BENEFICIAL BUGS, AND IT IS THE LAND OF THE GIANTS AS FAR AS HOW WELL MY PLANTS GROW AND MY VEGGIES. SO, USE SPARINGLY IN THE BOTTLE ON THE HOSE AND WILL BE FINE.

Freezing temps kill the Neem tree, so a house plant is the only way to go for most people.

I read somewhere a few months ago that neem is a weed that can spread and become invasive. It is a real problem in some parts of the world where the tree has been brought in. It is killing off native plants. For that reason unless you live where Neem is a native plant, like India, it probably should only be raised in a pot.

where can I get some neem oil from and how much does it cost. for what quantity

I bought Neem oil last year to use on my lilies, however the deer beat me to it and eat the lilies (boo hoo) this year I am determined to see my lillies bloom

claire2965 wrote:where can I get some neem oil from and how much does it cost. for what quantity

No idea where you go in gloucestershire to buy anything, but Neem oil is a very common product that would be in most garden stores or you can google it and buy on line.

do you need to reapply the neem after it rains?

also, it was advised to me the other day by a garden business owner, to dunk the seedlings in neem before planting. a couple posts above, it is mentioned here not to put it on seedling transplants. why do you suppose she does it but it is not recommended to?

This Might have been covered already.

But there are other Neem Products That have their place in the Garden

Quality (from NeemFoundation - not DTE) certified organic Neem Seed Meal or even Karanja Seed Meal Have a good nutritional analysis as well as the same compounds found in Neem Oil.

If you repeatedly are having problems with pests n the oil itself isnt quite managing it -- tilling in some neem seed meal in combination might be the next step.

Does neem oil work against Thrips (WF)? I have a HUGE problem with them because they are hard to get rid of especially once they are in the flower buds. I've used Organic Insecticidal soap which worked the best but had to be sprayed directly in the flower bud and on the leaves but it just ruined and scorched my plants. I tried a three in one pesticide as a last resort but it ruined my plants as well plus its not safe.
Anything I put I outside immediately gets attacked by thrips, ive had to pull all my plants out and trash them because of how much damage the caused. I want to start over but I am hesitant!

https://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/neemgen.html

Neem oil has been used for 100's of years as a fungicide, insecticide, and small amounts in food and cosmetics.

As a fungicide and insecticide it works best as a preventive.

It is an anti-feedant and given before aphids and scale populations explode, it has worked for me. Once the infestation is severe, I have not seen it work as well.

Most fungicides work best as preventives and neem is no different. It does work well as a preventive fungicide. So, do most horticultural oils as the oily coating repels water.

Any pesticide, organic or organophosphates are toxic. They have to be or they would not kill anything. Neem does not appear to be harmful to most animals if used in the correct mixture and at the right time and place.

Neem, like anything else can cause problems for if you have an allergy to any of its' components

Neem is an oil and if applied in the sun, like any of the other oils on a hot day (>80 degrees) can burn some plants.

Neem is an anti-feedant, so unless insects are smothered by the oil, or leaves are coated to prevent fungal infections, it needs to be eaten by the insects in quantity to affect them. Most insects are repelled by the taste.

It is generally agreed that neem does not affect foraging bees, but their is some evidence that there could be dose related effects on bee larvae who are fed pollen that have been sprayed with neem, and there is a suggestion though no proof that larvae of other beneficials, like lacewings, may be similarly affected.

Neem is slightly toxic to fish. Most things are.

Neem has been used to kill fleas and has caused some toxicity and deaths in cats that were probably dose related. Cats are sensitive because they are clean animals.

In conclusion: Neem is a good product that is generally safe if used in proper concentration at the right time.

Sprays should be applied on cooler, overcast days and not in direct sun to prevent burning of the plants. Neem works best as a preventive for fungal and insect infestations and is best used early.

To limit the effect on beneficial insects. 1. If the beneficial insects are around, don't spray, give them a chance to take care of the problem. Use water and hand picking instead. 2. If you still choose to spray avoid spraying plants in bloom to limit the effects on the bees. 3. Spray in the early morning or late evening when the beneficial insects are least active.

Use Advantage on the cats instead. Do not spray anything near ponds.

Use a test spray if you are using it for the first time to make sure the plants are not sensitive. Ferns and some other plants are very sensitive to many chemicals.

Make sure you take precautions to protect yourself when spraying: eye protection, long sleeves and plants and gloves. I use a disposable painter's suit and respirator fitted with a pesticide filter and safety glasses. Wash up thoroughly after using any chemical.

Thanks Imafan26 your post helped a lot!

Any one have any experience with thos brand. I see it is only 70% neem. Is that ok?

Anyone have success with vine borers? I about cried when I saw the damage.