I live in a VERY wooded neighborhood with critters from deer to mice all over. I open pile my compost. To keep the critters at bay, I puree up my veg scraps in a food processor before I add them to my pile. It works well for me.
I was thinking that I might frame up a sink outdoors with 2x4s and drop in a sink and disposall unit to grind veg up (with 5 gal bucket catch below) to make the whole process easier.
As unlikely as it seems, I've never lived in a house that had a sink disposall. Nobody I know has either. I'm hoping somebody out there has experience.
I generate between 2 and 5 gals per week household. I pickup another 5 or 10 gals from a local restaurant (as well as 5 to 10 gals of grass clippings - yes, no pesticides, herbicides or even fertilizer used). Leaves to balance brown to green are not a problem. I can always get more scraps or leaves if I want.
So I've googled up a bit and could use some advice. First, how fine does it chop? I understand in a normal kitchen set-up it goes into the cesspool,septic tank or sewer line so I'm thinking it's got to be fairly fine, but don't know.
How quickly does it process? Is this even worth considering?
What horsepower would be appropriate (I've seen everything from 1/3 to 1.5 HP)?
I would go with a SSteel vessel, but does the volume of that vessel matter much (if so how)?
Again, I know nothing about these units and would appreciate any insight available.
Thank you.
Yes, you can grind-chop kitchen waste into dust. I'm going to pose that you may net need to.
The esthetic of surviving lignin (fibery bits) doesn't change the moisture retention of compost or change its soluble (fertilizing) ability.
The stuff of your garden compost that draw dogs or vermin are meats and fats. And that only while it is comparatively fresh. I would lay off them and have your compost bin be overlooked.
I can measure by the quart how much of my composts needs to be sifted or ground, and all of that is for potting where it shows. The compost that ends up under mulch, nobody notices, and the earthworms don't care if it is blended perfectly or not.
The esthetic of surviving lignin (fibery bits) doesn't change the moisture retention of compost or change its soluble (fertilizing) ability.
The stuff of your garden compost that draw dogs or vermin are meats and fats. And that only while it is comparatively fresh. I would lay off them and have your compost bin be overlooked.
I can measure by the quart how much of my composts needs to be sifted or ground, and all of that is for potting where it shows. The compost that ends up under mulch, nobody notices, and the earthworms don't care if it is blended perfectly or not.
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meshmouse
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- Location: Long Island NY USA zone7a
tomc - thank you for the response.
You're saying a disposall will definitely chop veg fine, right? Good to know.
I understand what you're saying about pureeing veg not being necessary for good composting. But here's my situation.
My compost pile started out as just a place in the far corner of the yard (and downhill), where we would rake the fall leaves. Eventually, I discovered that if I turned that pile in the spring, there would be all this lovely dirt with earthworms in it. I would add it into my garden plots and noticed good things happening, so I kept at it. But for many years, that's all I did.
A few years ago my dear SO made a circular pen out of turkey wire, about 4 ft hi and across (no lid). We'd fill it with leaves, add some un-pureed veg scrapes. We've never used meat or dairy nor do we now (the only thing not veg are eggshells). The only animals I know for sure that came a'pickin were squirrels, racoons and crows.
So I started adding more leaves on top everytime I added veg in an attempt to hide it from the critters. Good practice as it turns out (unknowingly), but not very effective. My dogs eat too well to bother with it, but they sure raised bloody heck when they heard the racoons at night. Of course the next thing is the racoons added us to their route and would go to the trash cans next (and the neighbors as well).
Since I would only get about 5-6 gals of compost annually from this set-up, I started adding pureed veg to a 6 x 6 ft loose pile down back, inter-layering it with leaves, (intuitively) to hide it. That worked out really well compost-wise and no obvious critters. The racoons have taken us off their route.
Of course I was reading more and more on the innerweb to see if I could do better and eventually found this wonderful forum. This year, armed with some good ideas from this site, I expanded to clean grass clippings, more veg and bigger piles. The piles get warm on top (tho I've never measured them internally and don't know if they're truely hot). I now turn them less often and they decay much quicker. Apparently the smaller partical size from pureeing helps this.
I've already harvested at least forty gallons this year of what I would call compost. It's mostly worm castings with fine bits of leaves tossed thru-out it. I screen it thru a 1/2 mesh to remove larger twigs and hickory nuts (which then go into their own pile).
I use it as mulch/fertilizer in my various small garden beds as well as any potting soil I concoct. I'm sure I could get another 20-30 gals by the time the frost hits this year. I periodically make tea for foliar spraying or just watering specific plants.
So, I'm looking to slightly expand the operation (because I can), but the pureeing can be the bog down. I'm trying to make it easier to process even more veg.
Sorry to be so long winded. I appreciate the response. If you see any flaws in my set-up, please let me know. I'm definitely no expert with composting, just sorta feeling out my way to what works in this setting.
Thank you.
You're saying a disposall will definitely chop veg fine, right? Good to know.
I understand what you're saying about pureeing veg not being necessary for good composting. But here's my situation.
My compost pile started out as just a place in the far corner of the yard (and downhill), where we would rake the fall leaves. Eventually, I discovered that if I turned that pile in the spring, there would be all this lovely dirt with earthworms in it. I would add it into my garden plots and noticed good things happening, so I kept at it. But for many years, that's all I did.
A few years ago my dear SO made a circular pen out of turkey wire, about 4 ft hi and across (no lid). We'd fill it with leaves, add some un-pureed veg scrapes. We've never used meat or dairy nor do we now (the only thing not veg are eggshells). The only animals I know for sure that came a'pickin were squirrels, racoons and crows.
So I started adding more leaves on top everytime I added veg in an attempt to hide it from the critters. Good practice as it turns out (unknowingly), but not very effective. My dogs eat too well to bother with it, but they sure raised bloody heck when they heard the racoons at night. Of course the next thing is the racoons added us to their route and would go to the trash cans next (and the neighbors as well).
Since I would only get about 5-6 gals of compost annually from this set-up, I started adding pureed veg to a 6 x 6 ft loose pile down back, inter-layering it with leaves, (intuitively) to hide it. That worked out really well compost-wise and no obvious critters. The racoons have taken us off their route.
Of course I was reading more and more on the innerweb to see if I could do better and eventually found this wonderful forum. This year, armed with some good ideas from this site, I expanded to clean grass clippings, more veg and bigger piles. The piles get warm on top (tho I've never measured them internally and don't know if they're truely hot). I now turn them less often and they decay much quicker. Apparently the smaller partical size from pureeing helps this.
I've already harvested at least forty gallons this year of what I would call compost. It's mostly worm castings with fine bits of leaves tossed thru-out it. I screen it thru a 1/2 mesh to remove larger twigs and hickory nuts (which then go into their own pile).
I use it as mulch/fertilizer in my various small garden beds as well as any potting soil I concoct. I'm sure I could get another 20-30 gals by the time the frost hits this year. I periodically make tea for foliar spraying or just watering specific plants.
So, I'm looking to slightly expand the operation (because I can), but the pureeing can be the bog down. I'm trying to make it easier to process even more veg.
Sorry to be so long winded. I appreciate the response. If you see any flaws in my set-up, please let me know. I'm definitely no expert with composting, just sorta feeling out my way to what works in this setting.
Thank you.
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rainbowgardener
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I agree with you re the critters. I never put anything meat and only on rare occasions miniscule amounts of dairy. Nonetheless if my compost pile is not securely caged including across the top, the raccoons and rodents will get into it, eat veggie scraps and spread stuff all over. My way of dealing with that is to have my piles in a wire bin cage with secure top or a plastic compost barrel with lid. That works just fine and I don't need to chop/ puree my scraps.
You are right that chopping etc, will help them break down faster. You are also right to always cover scraps/ greens with leaves/ browns, for the composting process, to control odor, and to help deter critters.
The set up you describe should work. Too much effort for this lazy gardener, but too each their own!
You are right that chopping etc, will help them break down faster. You are also right to always cover scraps/ greens with leaves/ browns, for the composting process, to control odor, and to help deter critters.
The set up you describe should work. Too much effort for this lazy gardener, but too each their own!
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meshmouse
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- Location: Long Island NY USA zone7a
RBG - Thanks for the confirmation on the basic process.
If I were to make an enclosure or two for these compost piles, it would be out of sorts with the neighborhood aesthetic. These are small (mostly 1/5 - 1/4 acre) plots. There must be a fence somewhere about, but I can't think of one. Yet, nearly everybody has a pile of leaves in the far corner of their property. I just move mine around a little. My nearest neighbors' pile is within 30 feet of mine.
I understand and appreciate the concept of the lazy gardener. When I first started grinding veg, it was a little extra work to solve a big problem. As I expanded this year over last, that effort has become more and more. I need to make it less burdensome to expand.
I would like to expand the operation to spread some of the black gold to others. I could always use more myself, the restaurant that provides scraps and grass clippings can use more (for their tomato and herb beds) as can friends and neighbors in need. I just need to 'keep it simple stupid' and thought that a sink with disposall would be easier to do (as well as to clean up) than constantly filling and emptying a food processor.
I forget if it was you or applestar who said in a post I recently read that 'the house came with a disposall but if it was a living thing, it would have starved to death long ago' (I'm paraphrasing).
If it was you, maybe you could help with another question I have. How dangerous are these things. Is it possible to mangle one's fingers?
Thanks again.
If I were to make an enclosure or two for these compost piles, it would be out of sorts with the neighborhood aesthetic. These are small (mostly 1/5 - 1/4 acre) plots. There must be a fence somewhere about, but I can't think of one. Yet, nearly everybody has a pile of leaves in the far corner of their property. I just move mine around a little. My nearest neighbors' pile is within 30 feet of mine.
I understand and appreciate the concept of the lazy gardener. When I first started grinding veg, it was a little extra work to solve a big problem. As I expanded this year over last, that effort has become more and more. I need to make it less burdensome to expand.
I would like to expand the operation to spread some of the black gold to others. I could always use more myself, the restaurant that provides scraps and grass clippings can use more (for their tomato and herb beds) as can friends and neighbors in need. I just need to 'keep it simple stupid' and thought that a sink with disposall would be easier to do (as well as to clean up) than constantly filling and emptying a food processor.
I forget if it was you or applestar who said in a post I recently read that 'the house came with a disposall but if it was a living thing, it would have starved to death long ago' (I'm paraphrasing).
If it was you, maybe you could help with another question I have. How dangerous are these things. Is it possible to mangle one's fingers?
Thanks again.
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DDMcKenna
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- Location: Florida, USA, just north of Daytona Beach
I installed a disposal in our kitchen sink and it's the only sink in the house that doesn't go directly to the septic tank. Instead, the kitchen sink has its own little septic cistern outside in the back yard. I know it is a bug haven. But all that is beside the point.
What I wanted to point out was that a sink disposal unit requires a great deal of water to flush the waste through it. I don't know if that much water would be an issue with the compost that you are trying to create or not.
What I wanted to point out was that a sink disposal unit requires a great deal of water to flush the waste through it. I don't know if that much water would be an issue with the compost that you are trying to create or not.
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meshmouse
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- Location: Long Island NY USA zone7a
DDMcKenna -
That's a very good point. With the food processor set-up I use a fair amount of water, probably about as much as the veg. I've found that too little keeps it from getting very fine (in short time) and too much water has the same effect, only because things spin loose and don't hit the blade.
I fill the processor up about 2/3 full of veg and add enough water so that it chops efficiently. I'm guessing about 50/50 mix. It ends up about the consistency of pea soup. That has worked well in the compost
If the disposall uses more than that, it might be a problem.
Any insight as to the danger of the disposall's blades and one's fingers?
Thanks for the input.
That's a very good point. With the food processor set-up I use a fair amount of water, probably about as much as the veg. I've found that too little keeps it from getting very fine (in short time) and too much water has the same effect, only because things spin loose and don't hit the blade.
I fill the processor up about 2/3 full of veg and add enough water so that it chops efficiently. I'm guessing about 50/50 mix. It ends up about the consistency of pea soup. That has worked well in the compost
If the disposall uses more than that, it might be a problem.
Any insight as to the danger of the disposall's blades and one's fingers?
Thanks for the input.
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applestar
- Mod
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Wasn't me.... But you certainly don't want to put your hand in it while it's running -- it can grind up most chicken bones (not that I ever intentionally put any in) and scratch up --as in gouges and nicks-- silverware and even bend spoons and forks. It's also possible for it to kick something hard out and "put your eye out" (well not very often -- the rubber flaps in the drain helps to prevent most things from flying out -- but don't PEER into it while it's running unless you are wearing safety goggles/glasses)
It doesn't have "blades" so much as spikes I think -- the idea is to rip and mash rather than chop. At least that's the way it feels when I have to stick my hand in there to retrieve the errant bent and gouged spoons. I've never felt anything particularly sharp that would cut you (except the gouged spoons or on very rare occasions, broken glass).
Disposer has a circuit breaker (I think that's what it is) in case something jams in it. The breaker trips and stops the motor from burning out. It's usually a little red button on the bottom that you push to reset.
I haven't FED mine with veg scraps in ages, but from what I remember (and newer units may be designed differently to overcome these issues for all I know) :::
The sink disposer unit -- as far as I know -- will overheat without water running full force while it's running. It also immediately clogs if stuffed and run without water so that water swells up out of the drain into the bottom of the sink, then once clear, will go back down, leaving a horrible mess behind that need to be rinsed and flushed down -- sink sprayer with extending hose is an essential attachment.
Proper operation requires turning the water on, flipping the disposer switch on, then adding the scraps a little at a time. When finished, turn the disposer off, THEN turn off the water. That's a LOT of potable water going down the drain.
--- what I like about having the disposer is that I don't have to worry about non-compostable FOOD scraps on serving ware and cookingware. Everything goes down the disposer, add some detergent if greasy, then whir and flush. I generally pulse it, filling with water but not running the water full time. (I treat with used baking soda to clean out the greasy gunk.)
You have to remember though, that the disposer is open ended. I suppose you could rig the drain to be stopped from the other end so the disposer could be filled with water like you do with the food processor.
It doesn't have "blades" so much as spikes I think -- the idea is to rip and mash rather than chop. At least that's the way it feels when I have to stick my hand in there to retrieve the errant bent and gouged spoons. I've never felt anything particularly sharp that would cut you (except the gouged spoons or on very rare occasions, broken glass).
Disposer has a circuit breaker (I think that's what it is) in case something jams in it. The breaker trips and stops the motor from burning out. It's usually a little red button on the bottom that you push to reset.
I haven't FED mine with veg scraps in ages, but from what I remember (and newer units may be designed differently to overcome these issues for all I know) :::
The sink disposer unit -- as far as I know -- will overheat without water running full force while it's running. It also immediately clogs if stuffed and run without water so that water swells up out of the drain into the bottom of the sink, then once clear, will go back down, leaving a horrible mess behind that need to be rinsed and flushed down -- sink sprayer with extending hose is an essential attachment.
Proper operation requires turning the water on, flipping the disposer switch on, then adding the scraps a little at a time. When finished, turn the disposer off, THEN turn off the water. That's a LOT of potable water going down the drain.
--- what I like about having the disposer is that I don't have to worry about non-compostable FOOD scraps on serving ware and cookingware. Everything goes down the disposer, add some detergent if greasy, then whir and flush. I generally pulse it, filling with water but not running the water full time. (I treat with used baking soda to clean out the greasy gunk.)
You have to remember though, that the disposer is open ended. I suppose you could rig the drain to be stopped from the other end so the disposer could be filled with water like you do with the food processor.
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rainbowgardener
- Super Green Thumb
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: TN/GA 7b
In the meantime, compost bins don't need to be eyesores. My wire grid one looks about like this:
https://images.whiteflowerfarm.com/7185a.jpg
since I cover anything I put in there with leaves, from a little distance the grid blends in and it just looks like a square pile of leaves.
or they can look like a little shed:
https://images.whiteflowerfarm.com/7185a.jpg
since I cover anything I put in there with leaves, from a little distance the grid blends in and it just looks like a square pile of leaves.
or they can look like a little shed:
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meshmouse
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:14 am
- Location: Long Island NY USA zone7a
RBG -
Thanks for the pics. You're right, the mesh one would definitely be do-able. The others, not so much.
Do you cover the mesh one? I would have to but I am sure I could figure a way to do so.
The mesh unit is about 2.5 ft sq and 3 hi?
Somebody gave me four units that look very similar to yours but with a slightly larger mesh. Last week I set one up just like yours at my (8 x 12) community garden plot, against the shaded end, to be an in-garden compost pile (hoping I might be able to grow a little lettuce out the sides as well).
I've used them as supports for tomatos, cukes, peas and the like. I've set them up as zig-zag walls as well as long diamond shapes (by tying two units together with a few zip ties). I could put two together and make an octagonal shape about 5 - 6 ft across. Two set-ups like that would be very useful to me.
Definitely food for thought. Thanks again.
applestar -
Thank you for the very detailed info on how these disposalls work.
I'd be doing this outdoors with garden hose and nozzle right there. I'm sure I could fit a 1/4 turn valve at the bottom if I wanted to stop the flow of water while it's working and then open it to drain into the 5 gal bucket underneath. Basically it would be similar to the food processor set-up but a little bit easier.
Sounds like I'd also be able to use the 50 - 60 corn cobs and husks I currently throw out each season (because they're just too tough for the food processor).
I'm also thinking that I would probably be better off with a higher capacity, higher HP one.
Thanks guys, you have given me alot to mull over.
Thanks for the pics. You're right, the mesh one would definitely be do-able. The others, not so much.
Do you cover the mesh one? I would have to but I am sure I could figure a way to do so.
The mesh unit is about 2.5 ft sq and 3 hi?
Somebody gave me four units that look very similar to yours but with a slightly larger mesh. Last week I set one up just like yours at my (8 x 12) community garden plot, against the shaded end, to be an in-garden compost pile (hoping I might be able to grow a little lettuce out the sides as well).
I've used them as supports for tomatos, cukes, peas and the like. I've set them up as zig-zag walls as well as long diamond shapes (by tying two units together with a few zip ties). I could put two together and make an octagonal shape about 5 - 6 ft across. Two set-ups like that would be very useful to me.
Definitely food for thought. Thanks again.
applestar -
Thank you for the very detailed info on how these disposalls work.
I'd be doing this outdoors with garden hose and nozzle right there. I'm sure I could fit a 1/4 turn valve at the bottom if I wanted to stop the flow of water while it's working and then open it to drain into the 5 gal bucket underneath. Basically it would be similar to the food processor set-up but a little bit easier.
Sounds like I'd also be able to use the 50 - 60 corn cobs and husks I currently throw out each season (because they're just too tough for the food processor).
I'm also thinking that I would probably be better off with a higher capacity, higher HP one.
Thanks guys, you have given me alot to mull over.
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rainbowgardener
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 25279
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: TN/GA 7b
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HonoluluGirl
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:01 pm
- Location: Hawaii
What about using an immersion blender? https://www.comparing.guru/pages/nsearch ... fgodE6MAuQ
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rot
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- Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:15 am
- Location: Ventura County, CA, Sunset 23
..
I think you're on the right track WRT the garbage disposal - max HP and keep your fingers out of there. I'm sure a little experimenting will determine how much water is needed.
WRT to bins you might just want to do a web search and select a collection of images and then go out and see if the county or the water supplier has any give aways or discounts.
..
I think you're on the right track WRT the garbage disposal - max HP and keep your fingers out of there. I'm sure a little experimenting will determine how much water is needed.
WRT to bins you might just want to do a web search and select a collection of images and then go out and see if the county or the water supplier has any give aways or discounts.
..
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meshmouse
- Senior Member
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:14 am
- Location: Long Island NY USA zone7a
Thanks for all the input.
HonoluluGirl -
At first, I thought an immersion blender would be under powered. But you know, if I filled a 5 gal bucket half way with veg (and adding water as needed), it might actually be quite effective. I'm doing a batch tomorrow and I will give it a try. I'll let you know how it goes.
tomc -
Are you talking about one of the 'non-mesh' bins in rainbowgardener's post? They seem to have pretty solid lids (or could be adapted to have) which I agree could be a good thing regarding retaining heat and perhaps worm and microbial activity thru the winter.
Last winter I checked my open-pile (no container, no lid, just a pile) during a relatively warm few days. I found that there was no earthworm activity that I could see. But this years pile is definitely warmer and perhaps a loosely fitted, dark tarp on top would help keep things (and worms) more active in winter.
Of course, a tarp cover would also necessitate me being totally responsible for watering the pile (which could be done, but...).
One of the main reasons I've never gotten into vermicomposting (which I consider a wonderful endeavor), is that those worms would now be totally dependent on me for food, moisture, temperature and the like. That's a lot of responability. I already have a couple of dogs that are pretty reliant on me (or so I like to believe).
I prefer that they take care of themselves (the worms) and if I don't provide the right environment, they are free to move on. But that's just me.
rot -
I'm definitely leaning towards higher HP and larger reservoir (if that's the route I take). Oh, and yes, I'll mind those digits (safety first).
Regarding the county or water supplier offering discounts, what do you mean?
Thanks everybody.
HonoluluGirl -
At first, I thought an immersion blender would be under powered. But you know, if I filled a 5 gal bucket half way with veg (and adding water as needed), it might actually be quite effective. I'm doing a batch tomorrow and I will give it a try. I'll let you know how it goes.
tomc -
Are you talking about one of the 'non-mesh' bins in rainbowgardener's post? They seem to have pretty solid lids (or could be adapted to have) which I agree could be a good thing regarding retaining heat and perhaps worm and microbial activity thru the winter.
Last winter I checked my open-pile (no container, no lid, just a pile) during a relatively warm few days. I found that there was no earthworm activity that I could see. But this years pile is definitely warmer and perhaps a loosely fitted, dark tarp on top would help keep things (and worms) more active in winter.
Of course, a tarp cover would also necessitate me being totally responsible for watering the pile (which could be done, but...).
One of the main reasons I've never gotten into vermicomposting (which I consider a wonderful endeavor), is that those worms would now be totally dependent on me for food, moisture, temperature and the like. That's a lot of responability. I already have a couple of dogs that are pretty reliant on me (or so I like to believe).
I prefer that they take care of themselves (the worms) and if I don't provide the right environment, they are free to move on. But that's just me.
rot -
I'm definitely leaning towards higher HP and larger reservoir (if that's the route I take). Oh, and yes, I'll mind those digits (safety first).
Regarding the county or water supplier offering discounts, what do you mean?
Thanks everybody.
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rot
- Greener Thumb
- Posts: 728
- Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:15 am
- Location: Ventura County, CA, Sunset 23
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meshmouse,
Around here the local government has a couple of programs to help promote water conservation and to minimize the waste stream so they will promote composting to do that. They host how-to demonstrations every now and again raffling off an earth machine or a worm bin. The county has something or other going on where once a year you can get a bin for half off or at least $50. Things like that. See what they've got. Maybe they'll have something that will work for you. Maybe not.
to sense
..
meshmouse,
Around here the local government has a couple of programs to help promote water conservation and to minimize the waste stream so they will promote composting to do that. They host how-to demonstrations every now and again raffling off an earth machine or a worm bin. The county has something or other going on where once a year you can get a bin for half off or at least $50. Things like that. See what they've got. Maybe they'll have something that will work for you. Maybe not.
to sense
..