2013-14 WHO'LL BE GROWING WINTER TOMATOES INSIDE THIS YEAR?

[applestar]

Those are the correct spots to touch with the electric toothbrush. When done at the proper time, you will see a fairly significant amount of pollen pouring out of the anther cone. You can see the pollen better in bright light or by holding a black plastic spoon under the flowers to catch the pollen. Some varieties will start releasing pollen as soon as the flower petals change color from green to yellow, even before the petals start to curl back.

I think I see better pollen release around mid day to late afternoon. In the summer time, I try to do this around mid-morning when dew has dried but before it gets too hot. Right now with the indoor winter tomatoes, I occasionally do this before misting in the morning if it's warm enough, but mostly mist in the morning, then wait until they are dry -- before or after lunch -- when temperature has warmed a little bit and more conducive to setting fruit, then often near sunset when I go around closing the curtains and blinds.

[GardenFresh]

Those are the correct spots to touch with the electric toothbrush. When done at the proper time, you will see a fairly significant amount of pollen pouring out of the anther cone. You can see the pollen better in bright light or by holding a black plastic spoon under the flowers to catch the pollen. Some varieties will start releasing pollen as soon as the flower petals change color from green to yellow, even before the petals start to curl back.

I think I see better pollen release around mid day to late afternoon. In the summer time, I try to do this around mid-morning when dew has dried but before it gets too hot. Right now with the indoor winter tomatoes, I occasionally do this before misting in the morning if it's warm enough, but mostly mist in the morning, then wait until they are dry -- before or after lunch -- when temperature has warmed a little bit and more conducive to setting fruit, then often near sunset when I go around closing the curtains and blinds.

AS-

Thx for the info and confirming that I am placing the e-toothbrush in the right spots for pollination. I was curious about how often I should be doing this and at what stage of the flower opening...I thought maybe you had to wait until the yellow flower was completely open for some reason. I have only pollinated once on each plant I believe...didn't know you had to do it multiple times. I did see the pollen float after touching one of the flowers because I did it while it was still under my lighting structure.

You mentioned about "misting" which I currently do not do. I just water them right now...wasn't aware that the plants needed misting?

I think I will try taking the e-toothbrush when I get home from work and trying it again on all flowers that are at least open a little.

[applestar]

You mentioned about "misting" which I currently do not do. I just water them right now...wasn't aware that the plants needed misting?

I have found that one of the most significant everyday environmental factors next to sufficient light is humidity.

During the warm months, every time I go outside at or shortly after dawn, everything is dripping with dew. Even in the midst of serious drought, the plants are covered with dew and the ground at the base of objects and drip lines of shrubs and trees are wet from excess moisture.

So when I bring plants in, I mist them until nearly or actually dripping every morning when I open the window coverings and turn the lights on. As the heat turns on more and more often and eventually nearly all the time, the humidity in the house will plummet from 60's eventually down to 40's and even occasionally to 30's in the dead of the winter. -- open invitation for indoor pests like spider mites. Even though misting doesn't raise the humidity permanently because it all dissipates so quickly, at least while they are being misted, the local humidity rises to near 90's. The plants also take in the moisture from the leaves and I believe their pores open up. The daily misting helps them to gradually adapt to the lower humidity.

I use filtered water in trigger and pump sprayers.

One year, I was in bad health and was unable to mist them daily. The plants visibly suffered and I was convinced. Even if you don't spray, it's important to closely inspect your plants 2 or 3 times a week at minimum.

[applestar]

Sweet N Neat is definitely a good variety for this, as is Kootenai.

It's 27 inches from the countertop to the light and these two are still on risers -- Kootenai on a blue bucket and Sweet n Neat on a black container with room to grow, AND I can raise the light higher.

If I had the room, I'd put them in larger containers, but they are doing pretty well despite the limited size.

[Northernfox]

Apple how can I swindle some kootenia from you

This year I hope to grow a bunch and find out when works well here and what my family likes !

[Northernfox]

Apple your tomatoes look great ! Are your grow lights just regular shop lights ?

[ReptileAddiction]

Looking great as always apple!

On the pollination issue, I literally put the toothbrush inside the blossom and vibrate it. I get a good burst and good fruit set so I assume that way works. I really do not think that it is as much where you buzz it as to that you actually buzz it. My line of thinking is that I am trying to replicate a bee and they go in to the blossom and buzz so to me that is the most logical place to do it. Though that is just my opinion and very possibly completely wrong.

[applestar]

You want be careful not to damage the style and stigma and some varieties have protruding stigma that extend outside of the anther cone....

This is the lighting for the Winter Wonderland pictured above and one of the shelves in the garage:
https://t.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Light ... /202968125

Thanks for the kind words --- Haha, you jumped in and posted before I could add these pictures to the post above

Two other Kootenai plants -- they are more productive but somewhat taller

This one is not as compact and is trying to push past the light

This one is somewhere in between

image.jpg (35.52 KiB) Viewed 2225 times

(I have - and will have - plenty of Kootenai seeds. I intend to save the seeds from the extra compact plant separately, though ultimately, the flavor might be the deciding factor.)

I'm really looking forward to these Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum fruits, but the plant is on the floor with the Cool Gang and it gets colder down there. Very slow to develop.

-- I have three (?) other plants but they are not fruiting yet, so this one gets a higher rating so far

[rainbowgardener]

I'm not doing tomatoes or other edibles indoors, but I do have a whole bunch of indoor plants, traditional house plants, large trees, coleus, geranium, rosemary and a bunch other stuff I bring in to over-winter. This year I have a moonflower vine I brought in among all the other stuff, just to see how it does. Everything benefits from being misted daily. As applestar notes, houses are very dry in winter.

I have seen the difference. One year in February, I got busy with all the little seedlings under grow lights in the basement and quit misting all the over-wintering stuff, that had been getting daily misting. Everything stopped growing, the angel trumpet that had been doing great, dropped all its leaves and went dormant, etc...

The misting (given that I'm not doing tomatoes etc), helps allow me to water very little, which is good because then I don't get fungus gnats or anything in the soil, since it dries out thoroughly between waterings.

[gixxerific]

Thanks for tip Gals, I will start misting mine. I have never done this before.

[ReptileAddiction]

I honestly don't know how you guys do not get sick of growing tomatoes. In my garden by the time I yank them I am so sick of them. Right about now I start to want to plant them again and by the time to plant them I can not wait. I would not be able to grow them all year long.

[applestar]

We -- or at least *I* am weak. Cannot take the deprivation until planting time -- seed starting for summer tomatoes isn't until mid Feb at earliest, and actual planting not until late April/early May.

...can't wait to take a pic of the ripening fruit and show you all. Looking good I can almost taste it.

[applestar]

...and tah dah! ...almost ready to pick -- a couple more days at most

First to ripen Kootenai

It's about 1" across viewed this way but it's actually elliptical and is more like 1-3/4" at widest. Once this is harvested, the larger fruit which is about 2" across at widest should color break and blush. In the garden at maximum growth (28-30" high) some Kootenai fruits got to be maybe 2-1/2" in diameter so there isn't a whole lot of fruit size reduction in the container so far, and this is still a very small plant.

[Northernfox]

I cant wait for mine to be ready!

[gixxerific]

Forgot to mention I have some ripe fruit as well. JA Yellow X Hippie Zebra F2 first ripe winter tomato. Pics to follow.

[applestar]

Cherokee Tiger Large Red update:

Biggest mega bloom fused fruit is currently about 1" across and growing....

[applestar]

1st to ripen red Kootenai with what should have been Coyote -- these turned out considerably darker yellow and larger than the summer fruits so maybe it was bee crossed -- Jaune Flammée was the only yellow nearby and that would have been the right color and could account for the increased size?
(2 Fish peppers and a small Jalapeño)

[rainbowgardener]

Beautiful! It is just amazing to me that you can grow all that indoors, in winter, without high intensity lights or any really fancy equipment.

I'm still not trying it. Pretty much all available window space is taken up with all my house plants and all the ornamentals that get over-wintered. That's even more true right now, because the best window space with an almost floor to ceiling picture window facing mostly west and 2 windows on the other wall of the corner, facing mostly south, is now taken up with the Christmas tree. All the plants and trees that were there have been relegated to other (less light) spaces.

I don't want to put anything under the lights in the basement, because in just about a month seed starting starts again. And I must say, I enjoy a little break from gardening in Nov/Dec while I do holiday stuff. Makes me more ready to start again...

[applestar]

Haha I *used* to have all those house plants... Somehow, over the years, they have been superseded by edibles or other + alpha. Truly non-producing/ornamental "house plants" I have left are 2 Chenille plants, a couple of orchids and African violets, and a Norfolk Island Pine... Oh and a Ficus elastica though that's technically an useful plant... Oh I have the poinsettia, Thanksgiving cactus and night blooming cereus too.... and a couple of zebra plant succulent that really doesn't produce anything... Oh and some stick/pencil cactus that I begged cuttings from my daughter's dentist to propagate... Maybe I have quite a few house plants still after all....

...I dunno... This is more fun --- and you get to eat them, too.

(Close up of prolific Sweet n Neat -- 1/2" small cherries
-- with 2nd to ripen Kootenai and more to follow)

[Juliuskitty]

Beautiful. Nice job!
My apologies ahead of time if you have already answered this, as I haven't read the whole thread, but that looks to be a dwarf growing with the rugose dark green foliage. What variety is it please? Just curious because this is my first year growing dwarfs, and they are impressive.

[applestar]

Edited the post above to indicate varieties

I'm seeing most action from the Family Room Winter Wonderland. Maybe it's because DH was cranking the heat in there, making the room even warmer than upstairs bedrooms... maybe it's because we spend more time in there, filling the room with CO2... or most likely it's because that's the room that overall gets most sun and biggest (4-tube. T-8 fixture) longest duration supplemental light

...but today, I noticed that the upstairs striped fruit that doesn't look like Jaune Flammée as labeled ---Maybe more like Tigerella with these stripes? -- is stirring in DD's bedroom

<<< still picking off tomato leafminer caterpillars as soon as I find them (obviously I'm missing some and they are morphing into adult pregnant moths )
<<< and the week of warm before this snowstorm decended on us brought in more pesky ants and aphids . -- happy to see the outdoor thermometer registering at 24°F

[GardenFresh]

Just wanted to follow up and say that my growing is doing quite well and I have a number of cherry tomatoes on and getting bigger. My only concern at this point is since my growing area is in the unfinished basement, the recent cold snap outside is really putting a damper on the temp. Right now I am only averaging a high of like 70 to 72 and the low goes down to about 59 with the lights off.

I'd really like to get that temp up a little and stay constant around 75-78 but not sure if I should add a little heater or what....

Any suggestions.....?

[applestar]

The family room where winter wonderland is was only 56°F this morning and The cool gang on the floor is still sitting at 57°F. I think your 70's high and 50's low would not keep them from blooming and fruiting as long as you are diligent about e. toothbrushing the blossoms.

Mine will be very slow to ripen.

[GardenFresh]

The family room where winter wonderland is was only 56°F this morning and The cool gang on the floor is still sitting at 57°F. I think your 70's high and 50's low would not keep them from blooming and fruiting as long as you are diligent about e. toothbrushing the blossoms.

Mine will be very slow to ripen.

Thanks for your reply...I have been e-toothbrushing the blossoms every couple of days or so. I also have been trying to remember to mist with water bottle. Last night I did and the humidity went up from the 40's to the 60's in no time flat:)

I'm ready for some maters.....

[applestar]

Good luck and have fun! I'm harvesting the 2nd ripe Kootenai today (and a third is on it's way )

2nd and third ripening Kootenai

The upstairs fruit is ripening red and with the already present striping, it looks like this was a Tigerella and not Jaune Flammée as I thought.

Looks like Tigerella

I think they were originally together in a community seed starting ice cream tub -- JF on one side and T on the other, and it was the T that survived not JF

This first fruit is about 17 inches up the vine -- maybe typical for an indeterminate and a trait that may be unsuitable for my criteria.

[Juliuskitty]

Applestar, is this Tigerella potato leafed, asit looks in the photo?Do you think it may be a cross? Tatiana's wiki page mentions regular leaf for it. It is a pretty little tomato though. She has photos of it too, yours looks a little different.
Here's the link:https://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Tigerella

[applestar]

Hmm. Tigerella should be regular leaf. I'm still not good at recognizing the leaf shapes on mature plants, but now that you mention it, these leaves look "normal" -- I.e. They don't stand out -- next to the other two plants in this area -- Rainbow Dwarf and Redhouse Free Standing which are both potato leaf varieties ...I was also thinking this morning that the summer Tigerella fruits were somewhat taller than their width unlike this one which is more squat.
-- so maybe you are right.


I guess I should plan on saving these seeds to see what happens when they are grown out again.

[applestar]

Winter Wonderland

(2 fire engine red fruits all the way to the left are Peppadew peppers, and the bright red fruit all the way to the right is a Corno di Toro pepper )

Close up of the 3 currently ripening Kootenai fruits

Upstairs mystery (not quite Tigerella)

Stripes/streaks have yellowed and this fruit is ready to pick

Including the NOT Tigerella, tomatoes harvested to date:
Kootenai: 4
NOT Coyote: 2
NOT tigerella: 1

...so the novelty is (finally ) wearing off and I won't be reporting every ripening fruit henceforth but I think you get the idea. I'm pleased that the harvesting has started before Christmas as intended by starting the winter tomato seeds at beginning of August, and will most likely continue with this schedule in the future.

Oh, I WILL start making note of the flavors. ...and... I should mention that these two Kootenai that have been producing ripe fruits are already showing signs of wear with yellowing leaves. It may be that their determinate lifespan is already ticking away, or they are running out of nutrients in the small containers and I should have been feeding them more. Another possibility is that the recent aphid outbreak also introduced some kind of disease. But I think I'll be getting at least six 1.5-2.5 inch fruits from each plant in the 6.5 inch nursery containers.

Actually, the other Kootenai plant in the double decker udon-cup already has 12 green fruits growing.

[applestar]

Couple more photos

Kootenai with over dozen fruits:

Cherokee Tiger Large Red

Cherokee Tiger Striped Plum

L to R: Kootenai, Sweet N Neat (pink), Kootenai

[Northernfox]

Looking good my friends!

I just re-potted all of my tomatoes last night when it is a little lighter ill take some pictures of my babies I have green tomatoes on there!

[Juliuskitty]

Really a nice job Applestar, very impressive for NJ in winter!

[GardenFresh]

All

Just wanted to post an update on my tomatoes and some pics with questions.

Here are my cherries doing quite well and prob ready to turn red any day now:



Next are my San Marzano's not doing to bad and starting to get some fruit:



I have noticed that some of the San Marzano's are developing brown spots or areas at the bottom of the fruit and I am not sure what that is all about....any assistance would be appreciated:

[Juliuskitty]

It looks like blossom end rot. Paste types are notorious for getting BER. It is a calcium distribution problem, most often comes from uneven watering, and is very prevalent also in container gardening. The good news is most of the time, the plant outgrows it, so it becomes a non- issue.
Gardenfresh, if you are growing in containers, as I do, you might want to try giving them some Calcinit ( calcium nitrate) as a snack( insurance!). I get mine at Kelp4less.com and it is water soluble and very inexpensive. They ship free. No, I don't own stock in them.

[GardenFresh]

Juliuskitty-

Thanks for the info on BER. Can I use ground up egg shells for a calcium boost instead of buying something? If so, how many shells per plant would you use?

[applestar]

Take a look at the blossom end rot sticky. Be sure you're not putting them through drought/flood cycle.

I like spraying with milk solution which provides fungal issue resistance -- I don't know if the aerosol milk can or can't supply foliar calcium, but I understand foliar calcium feeding is what is needed to quickly turn them around. Eggshells will take too long to break down in the soil and the plants are already having trouble with their calcium uptake via the roots by the time BER shows up.

[GardenFresh]

Applestar-

Thanks for the info and link to the sticky for BER. From what I have read it seems very seldom the result of low calcium. I also read a few posts saying it was most likely a result of watering issues like you stated in your previous post.

With that in mind, can you elaborate on proper watering for potted tomatoes like mine which are in 5 gallon buckets? I have a feeling my watering schedule isnt quite up to par. I have a tendency of waiting at least 2 or 3 days before watering and the soil is really dry. Then I prob over water with a lot of water. Maybe I should be watering a little every day or every other instead of a lot every 3 or so.

Thanks for any assistance you can provide.....

[Juliuskitty]

I am not Applestar, but if it is OK, I can illuminate on that issue somewhat. In general, you should never let the aggregate get completely dry. Drip irrigation systems offer consistant watering, can be set up for containers, but might not be necessary for your needs.
Some questions before answering, please. First, what is in your potting mix? Is it potting soil, or potting mix? Did you add any dolomite lime, or garden lime( basically same thing)? What type of fetilizer, and whats your schedule for it, or did you place a "strip"at the beginning? Is your 5 gallon bucket a single bucket, or a self watering type of system?
A lot of the BER writing pertained to planting in soil, which is very different than container gardening.

[applestar]

Yep. Thanks juliuskitty -- or anyone else -- please do post answers to any questions posted if you know the answer.

Watering IS the issue. I usually do the "stick finger in the soil" test. But actual amount and frequency to water will depend on the size of the container, how moisture retentive the growing medium is, and the number and size of drain holes in the bucket -- how well the water drains out.

In a tall container like 5 gal buckets, the bottom can remain wet/moist while the top has dried out. There would be a gradual level of dryness from top to bottom. I would let the surface dry (putting finger on the surface of the mix feels dry) and water when a finger pushed into the mix about 1 inch still feels little or no moisture (for me that's first two joints of the forefinger) --- but I wouldn't want to let the 2nd inch layer to become dry (first two joints of *my* middle finger).

I have started drilling holes in the SIDES of containers. My two gal buckets get a series of holes at the bottom rim and halfway up. I would drill holes at bottom then 1/3 and 2/3 of the way up the sides of 5 gal buckets.

Temperature and humidity will affect how quickly the mix dries out. Also, when it's colder OUTSIDE, the heater runs more often to maintain the thermostat temp, so the air dries out more.

INDIVIDUALLY, the plants will need water more or less depending on their developmental stage. Once they start setting fruits, they drink a lot more than when they are just foliage. So you need to check them individually and water accordingly. Unlike outside on the ground where the moisture levels will even out somewhat, each container is it's own little world.

I have heard, though not confirmed, that although the term is "foliar" (leaf) feeding, the developing fruits can absorb calcium through their skin while they are still small/tiny. But by the time you actually notice BER on larger green fruits, it's too late.

You do need some calcium in the growing medium to begin with and commercial potting mix --especially peat and perlite type potting mix-- are not likely to have any (or very little). I like organic potting mix that contain compost and mycos (mycorrhizae) when I'm buying them, and use my own home made compost, vermicompost and under the woodpile or leaf pile topsoil when mixing my own. Other stuff I add also provide macro and micro nutrients and minerals -- rock phosphate, greensand, dolomitic lime, Kelp meal, pelleted alfalfa, and sand. I do sometimes add eggshells at time of planting in the bottom of the container, but rarely later on.

Whenever possible, I also add earthworms to the plant pots. On Christmas, I came home with two 1/2 pt containers of "baby crawlers" after visiting with BIL who went fishing and got me extra from the baits shop. ("Whatcha getting your SIL for Christmas?" ... "A couple of boxes of worms." ) He's promised to get me redworms (red wigglers) for my vermicomposter next time -- which may be today since he and DH went fishing for lake trout early this morning

[applestar]

BTW I have started supplementing with my little indoor AA(C*)T set up

2 gal bucket, 4" air disk and an air pump

* At the moment, it's bubbling about 1/3 cup of alfalfa pellets and organic potting mix containing myco plus a dribble of molasses. At various times, I may add used coffee grounds (UCG), rinse out water of last dregs from milk, juice, soda, etc cartons and bottles, bokashi, vermicompost, etc. It's like a witches cauldron

Right now, it's pretty concentrated stuff and the thing actually bubbled over yesterday. I continue to add water as I take some of this out so the concentration is variable, but I mix 1/5, 1/4 to 1/3 of this with 4/5, 3/4 to 2/3 de-chlorinated water -- so diluted 1:4, 1:3 to 1:2 -- for every 2nd or 3rd watering or so (I'm guessing about once a week). Nothing is carefully measured

[applestar]

Sweet N Neat is starting to blush: