Heirloom Seeds - Order from Nursery From Same Zone?

[Springfever]

I would like to know thoughts on good seed company's for heirloom seeds in zone 6 does it matter if we order from a nursery in the same zone? Also what are the best in your opinion?

[Springfever]

Thank you. We are switching ground gardening to bed gardening and are trying to go with heirloom varieties and its nice to have a place I can go when I have questions. I guess I can read all I want but doing is the best teacher I have found in my two years of growing. So many choices and methods confusing.

[imafan26]

Seeds of Change are also a good source of heirloom seeds

https://www.seedsofchange.com/productcategory.aspx?c=185

Rene's garden has all kinds of seeds and helpful gardening tips and recipes too.

https://www.reneesgarden.com/orderform/h ... -order.htm

It does not matter what company you get seeds from as long as they are reputable. Most seed companies do not grow all of their seed and buy seed from contractors. However, since I live in the tropics, I try not to buy seed raised in Holland. Some seed packets will say where the seed was grown.

What is important is that you find out what varieties will grow best in your zone. There are Northern or early varieties of some plants that are better for short growing seasons. If you are planting something like onions or garlic it becomes more important to get the right kind. Before you buy it is best to research the growing conditions of the plants you want to grow and see if you can provide it.

[applestar]

Some heirloom seed sources sell varieties that are adapted to their local area and provide growing information based on their own trial growing experiences (in the local area). So for those reasons, I think it's a really good idea to seek local or nearly local resources. My own favorite for closest to home Mid-Atlantic climate/growing zone is Southern Exposure Seed Exchange. I do order seeds from other area sources though -- especially NE region sources -- Fedco, Johnny's, Pinetree, Potato Lady of Maine....

I think for Missouri and other mid-west/central locations, Baker Creek (rareseeds) and Seed Savers would be the closest. Dixondale for alliums.

My other favorites by region are:
NW -- Territorial
West Coast -- Kitazawa Seeds
SW -- Seeds of Change

There are probably others....
Hmmm Sandhill Preservation for one... but I can't remember where they are located... somewhere in the central region I think.

[tomc]

Hmmm Sandhill Preservation for one... but I can't remember where they are located... somewhere in the central region I think.

IA, Iowa I'm thinking of-for Sand Hill.

[Susan W]

I don't grow veggies per se, but herbs and some native plants. Check out Southern Exposure Seed Exchange as they do have a veggie selection. I also use Horizon Herbs for some different things. Do check the seed racks at your garden center or even the box stores. More heirlooms and organic are showing up in mainstream outlets.

[applestar]

Yes! I bought some hard to find herb seeds from Horizon (west coast somewhere) and they have excellent growing guides.

[grrlgeek]

Hi Springfever,

I agree with everyone who has already responded, and thought I would add my perspective as a fellow (relatively) beginner gardener. At my stage in the learning curve, the best of the all-reputable companies mentioned so far, are the ones that provide a lot of information about the plants in their catalog.

All of these companies mentioned sell heirlooms, organics, open pollinated (which, if successful, may eventually be an heirloom), as well as hybrid varieties. Many hybrids are also available in organic seed. I don't pick hybrids first, but I am growing some that I don't plan to save seed from.

Hybrids aren't all bad. If something looks especially tasty, I just read the description for how well it has been engineered to "travel and sell." Hybrids that travel well may not be so tasty, so given an heirloom or OP variety that is similar, I give that preference. I will only buy from a company that has signed the Safe Seed Pledge: https://www.councilforresponsiblegenetic ... pageId=261

Here's my take on the companies and their catalogs, going down the pile of the seven that got my business this year:

Johnny's Selected Seed https://www.johnnyseeds.com is an agro-geek's dream. They provide specific culture and growing information right there on the page. Optimum soil temps for germination, check. Insect and Disease susceptibility (and how to combat it), check. Photo pictures of everything, check. Icons for container-friendly, greenhouse-friendly, heat/cold tolerance, trellis needed, etc etc etc... lots of icons - check! Though not necessarily a how-to guide for growing the veggie in Zone X during Y season, you can read between the lines and easily extrapolate how something might perform in your area. Their seed packets have most of that same information, so when you're planting, you don't have to keep a stack of catalogs on the potting bench.

High Mowing Organic Seeds https://www.highmowingseeds.com got the bulk of my seed order this year. Everything in the catalog is organic. They have heirlooms, open pollinated, as well as hybrids. I really liked their item descriptions. They tell it like it is... "not good in heat, ok in spring but better in fall, needs long-day growing season, tolerant of shade, thinner skin that tends to split if not harvested on time, lower yielding in extreme north......" I really got a feel for the variety, and bought things for which I could deliver the environment it wants. Seed packets have all the details you want at planting time. I can't wait to grow organic turnips!

Territorial Seed Co https://www.territorialseed.com Tech info almost on-par with Johnny's. I really enjoy reading their catalog. Lots of organic and OP. I am not noticing any specific call-outs that the variety is "heirloom", but they do list OP or F1 as the first item of each description. I bought lettuces, peppers, herbs, and a few unique plants from them this year. Good info on the seed packets, the basic numbers of course, but the growing/sowing info is a little generic.

Seed Savers Exchange https://www.seedsavers.org OP and Heirloom varieties only. No hybrids at all. Note, not all Open Pollinated are Heirlooms though. Many, many, many of their selections are organic. I'm not a member, so I don't have access to the zillion additional varieties offered through their member yearbook. The open-to-the public catalog held more than enough irresistible choices to entertain me this year though. Seed packet info is good, but many don't list days-to-maturity, even when that info is in the catalog. If I don't write that on the stick at planting, I know I will never go back and add it, and I need to know these things at this stage in my learning. That's my only gripe about this company.

Seeds of Change https://www.seedsofchange.com Like High Mowing, everything in this catalog is organic. It's nice not to have to check. OP, Heirloom, and F1's. Good details in the variety description - with callouts for good container and greenhouse varieties. Good info on sizes of plants and their habits. Culture and Growing info is much more basic than Johnny's or Territorial, but I learned from those other catalogs and was able to browse this one confidently. They had some awesome lettuces that I couldn't pass up. Their prices are a tad higher than the others, but I feel good supporting them, and they had stuff I wanted that the others didn't carry. Seed packet info is excellent, and the packets are hermetically sealed plastic with a ziplok to re-close.

Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds rareseeds.com Their catalog has been described by someone here on this message board as a "coffee table book." It's absolutely gorgeous. With every page turned I hear myself saying, "I want to eat that!" All they sell are heirlooms, many rare, from all over the world. Nothing is organic "certified," but they promise that they adhere to responsible practices. Product descriptions are very appealing, but it's more about how yummy it's going to be, than about how or where you should be growing it for a successful harvest. Not everything is pictured, in fact, a lot of varieties are not pictured and they squander a lot of pages that could have more varieties shown, with full-page photos of the proprietor’s daughter eating giant watermelons. But I digress. (okay, she’s a cute kid.) I had to rely on info gleaned elsewhere to navigate sometimes, and I am not sure how well my choices will do. That said, last year's seed order all germinated well. Some made it to harvest, others didn't... but if you like to learn by doing, as I do too, then the journey was worth it, and it didn't stop me from ordering another 2 dozen exotic things that I want to eat this year. I can't wait to eat a Cream Sausage tomato and a Lao White eggplant! Their seed packet info kinda sucks - both generic and spartan. Another case of an intermediate gardener having an easier time with their seed. Prices are reasonable, and they ship fast.

Peaceful Valley Farm & Garden Supply https://www.groworganic.com They have their own seed, mostly organic, a few sustainably grown, heirloom, OP, and a few hybrids too. They also sell Horizon Herbs seeds as well as Renee's Garden seeds. Their website has a fantastic collection of How-To videos that I have learned a great deal from. I ordered seed potatoes from them, and a lot of herb and flower seeds. Seed packets have excellent, detailed information.

As an aside,

I work at the "orange" home improvement giant, and we got a rack of Seeds of Change seeds for the first time this year. They're selling fast. The one cool thing about the big box store seeds, is that they get shipped regional collections that are known to perform well in that particular area. Ferry Morse is also expanding their Heirloom and Organic collections. If I see something that looks yummy and doesn't insult my ethics, I shop at the stores too. Shop early. Not all stores keep their stock in optimal environments. When the seed racks come out, they've arrived just a week or two earlier from the supplier. Check the envelope "packed for year" date. My local giant home improvement "competitor" still has last year's seed out because this year's hasn't arrived yet.

Hope the info is helpful, and please let us know how you fare with these, or any other companies! Good luck with your garden!

Devon

[imafan26]

You are right GG. Heirloom seeds just means they have been around awhile like 50 years. Some of them were originally hybrids but have stabilized over time and are pretty consistent. Not all heirlooms are organic. Organic certification needs to meet certain standards of how they are grown, so heirlooms and even hybrids can be grown organically or not.

Most of the hybrids will beat out the heirlooms on disease resistance, shipping and storage quality, but heirlooms have stuck around mainly because they taste better.

There are some really good hybrids though. Sungold tomato is a hybrid that is at the top of most taste tests and is very sweet. On the other hand, yellow pear is an heirloom I cannot stand since it is so sour.

If you do choose heirlooms it is best to get varieties that have been tested or come from regions near you.

I was told that I probably could not grow brandywine in the heat, but they did fine. I also found out there is more than one brandywine strain and my packed just said brandywine, so I don't know which strain I had. It was good though. I had to fight off the birds to get any.

I also found out that it matters where onions and garlic are concerned it matters what type you get. Colder regions grow northern varieties and the south grows southern varieties and there are intermediates for the places in between.

I am too warm to grow French tarragon or L. augustifolia, but I can grow Mexican tarragon and Lavender multifeda. So knowing the range of what you want to grow also helps. You can usually cheat one zone up or down if you can provide the right micro climate.

Sometimes compromises need to be made. Nematodes, tomato mosaic virus, CMV, ringspot, maize mosaic virus, and fusarium are prevalent diseases here so it is best to get the most resistant cultivars. Now, I am having problems with tomato yellow leaf curl and basil downy mildew, I can only grow resistant cultivars or none at all.

[juzme]

I buy some from several already named plus a lot from Southern Exposure Seed Exchange out of Mineral, VA.

[grrlgeek]

Sungold tomato is a hybrid that is at the top of most taste tests and is very sweet. On the other hand, yellow pear is an heirloom I cannot stand since it is so sour.

If you do choose heirlooms it is best to get varieties that have been tested or come from regions near you.

I was told that I probably could not grow...........

I almost picked Sungold based on reputation but I let Yellow Pear win out because I actually like tart tomatoes in salads!

One of the problems we face here in the high desert of California is that there aren't a lot of heirloom varieties coming out of the region, at least not where tomatoes are concerned. I am waiting to place an order with Native Seeds https://nativeseeds.org/ when their 2014 catalog comes out, but they have a lot more varieties of corn, squash, bean, and peppers; the southwest staples, than anything else.

One fun thing we are trying to learn to do, is to garden year round, despite the challenges. We have a summer consisting of 60+ consecutive days with temps over 90, and often at/around 100 or more. Even the weeds die! So we have split our year up, and are trying some things that do well in short growing seasons, and have a greenhouse to stave off winter for as long as possible. I'm still pulling carrots and broccoli side shoots out of there, and the last 2 broccolis planted are about finished with their main head. The lettuce has been growing year round, thanks to some northern frost hardy varieties, and some heat tolerant ones in the summer. I only heat it with a small propane camp tent heater on nights forecasted to be below freezing.

We do lack the long-day sun though, so as you mentioned, we are careful with onions and garlic to get the right types. This year's experiment is to push the latitude envelope and see if we can grow chayote squash, even though San Diego is about as far north as it likes to grow. I picked a spot that only gets morning sun and then deep afternoon shade. I have 5 that have sprouted and I should probably put them in the ground soon. I also want to try starting some sub-arctic tomatoes indoors in July or August, keeping them under lights until mid-September, then see if they'll produce in the greenhouse going into winter.

But to bring this back sorta on topic (sorry for the wandering) I think growing heirlooms from other regions can be successful, if the right microclimate is provided. Whether or not I can do that stands to be seen, but that's the hypothesis. But for us anyway, we're in it to learn, have fun, eat interesting things, and maybe even gather some skills in case there's a zombie apocalypse or an ice age in our near future. And who knows, if I can get a couple tasty things to survive my torture tests, and then save the seeds, I can create my own regional heirloom in another 50 years!

[Springfever]

Ok I received my baker creek catalog and ran to the house like a kid going to the park. Well after 4 hours of looking and wanting everything I ordered. We have placed an order and have 10 New things this year we plan on growing. I can't wait to get rid of the 10 inchhes of snow. I do have another question about the heirlooms. When planting tomatoes do I need to b e careful how close different tomatoes are to each other as far as pollination is concerned? When seeds are saved will this cause problems if two varieties are to close?. You are all awesome I can't thank you enough for the advice. This is so much fun. I wish I would have started 20 years ago.

[imafan26]

Tomatoes are bee and wind pollinated, so it is possible for them to cross. Below is a link to how to save tomato seeds.

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/vi ... hp?t=28675

[Molly_Lenore]

I have seeds from all over the place & they've all done pretty well. As a matter of fact, some seeds I got from Utah and Kansas actually ended up doing better for me than the ones I got from here in North Carolina.. a lot to take into consideration though, like for example the seed starting methods, growing conditions, etc. (it may not have been entirely the seeds' fault).

You will have to treat certain things certain ways that grow in certain areas, of course. Like for instance, I will most likely never be able to put any tropical or citrus plants in the ground around here, I keep those strictly in containers.. The weather is too bi-polar here for them (70's one day, snowing the next).

[MB3]

Some people have made good lists of many the big seed companies that deal with some (or all) organic &/or heirloom, but there are others, smaller players that have excellent seeds, often for much cheaper (not always).
One seller I like is Ohio Heirloom Seeds, he grows all their own produce/seeds, and is in the same city as I am in, so I have a good idea that they will do okay for me. His seeds are usually very high quality, inexpensive, and has flat rate shipping. His selection is mostly tomatoes and a decent amount of herbs and greens, and a few peppers. No curcubit-family stuff that I recall. If you are intertested, since he is in nearly the same zone as you, find him on ebay, amazon or his own website. I also know that he offers 10% discounts through his own site, to members of a couple of tomato-specific gardening forums I order almost all my bought seeds from him, as I am on an extreme budget, living many times below poverty, so his cheap prices/shipping with quality seeds wins me.
That said, I also have gotten plenty of seeds from many other seed companies, especially ones mentioned in above posts.
Some other sources to consider, who I think are not yet mentioned are Mill Hollow Farm, Appalachian Heirloom Plant Farm, Native Seeds/SEARCH, Sand Hill Preservation Center, Vermont Bean Company.
Oh, yeah, an older company in Ohio has been re-established, Gleckler Seedmen. Another Ohio company is noteworthy, Livingston, who is based on one of the old great seedmen who helped develop many heirloom varieties.

Also remember, many of us can't use all seeds in a pack, so what you want to do next is get into swapping seeds with other like-minded people on sites like this. I love seed trading =) As long as I have postage money, I am always game.
Also there are plenty of free seeds for SASE offers through members at sites like this or similar gardening sites, as well as sites like WinterSown, GardenHoard (who also sells LOTS MORE good heirloom stuff not in the free SASE section, I recommend you do so if you are able), TomatoSeedBankProject.
For buying things like tomatoes you will find lots of sources for all the heirloom varieties, as well as private, small breeder's hybrids that are not hybridized for necessarily usually the same reason as bland store tomatoes. mariseeds carries lots of seeds from private growers and breeders that are worth trying. a good database for tomatoes, which also notes who is selling a certain breed that year, is Tatiana's TOMATObase (who also sells some seeds herself).

[gixxerific]

Some if not most seed suppliers have a portion grownout by others. These growers could be from anywhere.