I think it is a lot more difficult to see it in the pictures but to me, it sure seems like she is getting bigger and thicker. I have learned that the only reliable way to know when to water her is the way Tom taught me. I just use my pinky finger to dig in and try to reach the bottom in two or three spots around the pot. The watering is pretty irregular because the weather is always a little different. But I think I'm starting to get the hang of it.
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DDMcKenna
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:10 pm
- Location: Florida, USA, just north of Daytona Beach
Re: Florida Bonsai
Well, in about a week, my baby Juni will be 3 months old, (to me).
I think it is a lot more difficult to see it in the pictures but to me, it sure seems like she is getting bigger and thicker. I have learned that the only reliable way to know when to water her is the way Tom taught me. I just use my pinky finger to dig in and try to reach the bottom in two or three spots around the pot. The watering is pretty irregular because the weather is always a little different. But I think I'm starting to get the hang of it.
I think it is a lot more difficult to see it in the pictures but to me, it sure seems like she is getting bigger and thicker. I have learned that the only reliable way to know when to water her is the way Tom taught me. I just use my pinky finger to dig in and try to reach the bottom in two or three spots around the pot. The watering is pretty irregular because the weather is always a little different. But I think I'm starting to get the hang of it.
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DDMcKenna
- Senior Member
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:10 pm
- Location: Florida, USA, just north of Daytona Beach
Good Morning my friends,
It's been a while, and that was on purpose because I don't want to become annoying, and also I've had some fairly interesting changes to deal with.
What's most important is Juni! Yep, she's alive and healthy and it's been over six months now. Juni has a completely new environment. I built a little house for Juni. It's basically a sort of tall narrow table where she resides on the lower shelf. She is able to sit out in the full sun all the time now, right outside my sliding glass door so I can be with her as much as I can.
The table top serves to protect her from the Florida downpours plus she's under the eve of the house. But she gets the benefit of full morning sun and the sides of the table are solid so most of the noon sun and all the evening sun are blocked.
I'm going to include a couple pics if I can remember how and say that I have yet to touch her with any pruning instrument. I wanted her to be well established and I think she has found a comfy little place to stay.
It's been a while, and that was on purpose because I don't want to become annoying, and also I've had some fairly interesting changes to deal with.
What's most important is Juni! Yep, she's alive and healthy and it's been over six months now. Juni has a completely new environment. I built a little house for Juni. It's basically a sort of tall narrow table where she resides on the lower shelf. She is able to sit out in the full sun all the time now, right outside my sliding glass door so I can be with her as much as I can.
The table top serves to protect her from the Florida downpours plus she's under the eve of the house. But she gets the benefit of full morning sun and the sides of the table are solid so most of the noon sun and all the evening sun are blocked.
I'm going to include a couple pics if I can remember how and say that I have yet to touch her with any pruning instrument. I wanted her to be well established and I think she has found a comfy little place to stay.
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rainbowgardener
- Super Green Thumb
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Looking good! I like your approach - learn how to take care of your tree and keep it alive and healthy first, get to know it very well, before you start doing anything that can hurt it. First do no harm!
I know tom suggests before you start any pruning etc, draw the tree from several different views. Figure out what will be the front of it, what general style you want to aim for (upright, slanted, cascade, etc). You don't want to touch pruners to it until you know why you are doing whatever it is and have an image of what you want it to do.
I know tom suggests before you start any pruning etc, draw the tree from several different views. Figure out what will be the front of it, what general style you want to aim for (upright, slanted, cascade, etc). You don't want to touch pruners to it until you know why you are doing whatever it is and have an image of what you want it to do.
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DDMcKenna
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:10 pm
- Location: Florida, USA, just north of Daytona Beach
Thank you, I'm honored to receive such positive remarks.
I'll be honest and quite frank, I was horrified that I did her such an injustice soon as I became her new dad by immediately putting her in that new pot and then reading how that was probably not a very good idea. I understand the concept of keeping her in what would be the most natural environment but I found the natural clay pot just a little too boring for my taste and was so excited when I was at the nursery and saw the selection of options.
I quickly learned that this new pot, having only a single drain hole, (which meant I had to invent a special way to tie her down), and the fact that it was "glazed", meant that my watering technique would have to be modified to suit the situation. The only thing I could think to do was take heed of the information I received here and learn how to "feel" with my finger, digging in the soil, just when to water her. I found that varied constantly with changes in humidity and temperature. Sometimes it was every other day, a couple times it was everyday when she got left out in the Florida sun all day because I was at work. I felt so bad because she "baked" all day. But I soon learned that it was important to make sure she dried out good before I got too generous with the water.
Now, since I still have the benefit of a few 80 degree days, (unlike most of the country), but have experienced a number of cooler nights, my watering has been more spaced out. It's still my biggest fear because I am still trying to make sure I get this whole watering thing right first. It still amazes me that you can grow an actual tree in a handful of dirt. That's almost scary. But I think it's fun and since this is my first attempt at keeping any thing alive, I want to try and do my best.
I was concerned about this whole required "dormancy period" that she requires and I'm still not certain how well Florida is going to cooperate with that. I can't bring her inside because, well, you know. I do have a shed that would keep her out of the light completely so she would end up experiencing the frequent swings in temps that are common in a Florida winter. Some cool days, (only a few), where it may get down to the 30's at night but then it may get into the 70's on some days. Always crazy here.
I still have so much to learn about what she needs and to be really honest, I still don't have any idea of how I want to prune her. I have this terrible way of looking at it. I try to imagine I was her. Would I want somebody chopping off my arms to make me look like something they want to see? I really feel like my best chance of keeping her alive, (for now), is not to do anything she doesn't like. She has grown a bit to where her little fingers are now rubbing up against the sides of the table I have her in. I know that eventually, she will have to be pruned. But I'm scared to death to hurt her.
Sorry I get so carried away. I never had anything like this before and I spend hours looking at her and trying to decide what to do. I hope the winter goes well for her and maybe next spring, I'll have a better idea what to do.
I'll be honest and quite frank, I was horrified that I did her such an injustice soon as I became her new dad by immediately putting her in that new pot and then reading how that was probably not a very good idea. I understand the concept of keeping her in what would be the most natural environment but I found the natural clay pot just a little too boring for my taste and was so excited when I was at the nursery and saw the selection of options.
I quickly learned that this new pot, having only a single drain hole, (which meant I had to invent a special way to tie her down), and the fact that it was "glazed", meant that my watering technique would have to be modified to suit the situation. The only thing I could think to do was take heed of the information I received here and learn how to "feel" with my finger, digging in the soil, just when to water her. I found that varied constantly with changes in humidity and temperature. Sometimes it was every other day, a couple times it was everyday when she got left out in the Florida sun all day because I was at work. I felt so bad because she "baked" all day. But I soon learned that it was important to make sure she dried out good before I got too generous with the water.
Now, since I still have the benefit of a few 80 degree days, (unlike most of the country), but have experienced a number of cooler nights, my watering has been more spaced out. It's still my biggest fear because I am still trying to make sure I get this whole watering thing right first. It still amazes me that you can grow an actual tree in a handful of dirt. That's almost scary. But I think it's fun and since this is my first attempt at keeping any thing alive, I want to try and do my best.
I was concerned about this whole required "dormancy period" that she requires and I'm still not certain how well Florida is going to cooperate with that. I can't bring her inside because, well, you know. I do have a shed that would keep her out of the light completely so she would end up experiencing the frequent swings in temps that are common in a Florida winter. Some cool days, (only a few), where it may get down to the 30's at night but then it may get into the 70's on some days. Always crazy here.
I still have so much to learn about what she needs and to be really honest, I still don't have any idea of how I want to prune her. I have this terrible way of looking at it. I try to imagine I was her. Would I want somebody chopping off my arms to make me look like something they want to see? I really feel like my best chance of keeping her alive, (for now), is not to do anything she doesn't like. She has grown a bit to where her little fingers are now rubbing up against the sides of the table I have her in. I know that eventually, she will have to be pruned. But I'm scared to death to hurt her.
Sorry I get so carried away. I never had anything like this before and I spend hours looking at her and trying to decide what to do. I hope the winter goes well for her and maybe next spring, I'll have a better idea what to do.
The juniper should still be good outside since it has very good cold tolerance and can take freezing temps just fine. I don't know how well a ceramic pot would do on the other hand. Jun will prefer to be outside as much as possible.
It looks like a happy plant.
I have had junipers before. I did a cascade with my juniper. The hardest thing to find was the 18 inch tall square pot.
It looks like a happy plant.
I have had junipers before. I did a cascade with my juniper. The hardest thing to find was the 18 inch tall square pot.
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rainbowgardener
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: TN/GA 7b
"Jun will prefer to be outside as much as possible" especially in FLA this means all the time. They do not like indoor environments.
McKenna - I think you are making this harder on yourself, by personalizing your tree so much. It's great that you value it so much and want to take good care of it. I think thousands of these little juniper bonsais are killed every year, because people buy them without bothering to find out anything about what they need. But it is not a human and does not have the same kind of senses as humans have.
McKenna - I think you are making this harder on yourself, by personalizing your tree so much. It's great that you value it so much and want to take good care of it. I think thousands of these little juniper bonsais are killed every year, because people buy them without bothering to find out anything about what they need. But it is not a human and does not have the same kind of senses as humans have.
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DDMcKenna
- Senior Member
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:10 pm
- Location: Florida, USA, just north of Daytona Beach
Juni's house is about to fall down!
It was purely by accident or good fortune that I discovered the perfect little "cottage" for Juni to live in. A simple cheap two-shelf stand with the upper shelf removed. So it was just a one-foot by one-foot table that stood about thirty inches high and Juni could live on the lower shelf, about ten inches from the ground. She is sitting right outside my glass sliding doors so I can keep a constant eye on her and play with her everyday when I get home from work.
But, her cheap little house was made of a vinyl covered particle board and I knew it wouldn't last outside. I figured I could get a few months at best but her house is already leaning to one side a bit as the particle board has soaked up so much rain that it is disintegrating.
But, all is GOOD! The design of the little table was perfect to allow her to get good morning sun while the table sides blocked the afternoon and evening sun. And the table top protected her from the Florida downpours. The table design was so perfect and I spent hours, days searching stores and online trying to find a plastic or some kind of replacement in a similar design. I finally gave up.
I went to Lowes and bought pressure treated lumber and I built Juni a new house! I built it out of one-by-sixes, paired to make it twelve inches deep and wide and she has a new tile roof. I just put my third and final coat of white paint on it and it's drying in my utility room. Tomorrow morning, I'll use clear silicone sealer to fill in all the joints and cracks so by tomorrow evening, I can move it out on the deck and Juni will move into her new house.
You'll have to wait until she's moved in to get pictures because it will be better when I have the sun on her. The last ordeal I have is the watering issue. I've found it so darn difficult to deal with the watering in this funky Florida weather. We've had a few cold nights but cold to us is when it drops to the forties overnight and the fifties in the daytime. I feel bad for the rest of the country that has been dealing with early deep-freezes. But I know these cooler nights makes it extra difficult to determine when Juni is thirsty because I try to stick my pinky all the way to the bottom of her pot to feel the dirt and how moist it is. The glazed pot seems to hold a lot of moisture and it "feels" wet even when it's not.
So I'm struggling with making sure I don't over-water her and I'm also thinking about giving up on trying to artificially create this period of dormancy. Like others have said, the weather just never cooperates. Instead, I'm hoping to treat her just like a healthy young baby tree that would be living out in the woods and just happened to always get the right amount of water and not have to deal with animals or debris that might hurt her. A normal tree would experience all the odd temperature swings and climate that a lot of trees in Florida do so I'm hoping that if I just make sure the pot doesn't freeze and crack, she'll do fine. I thought about draping a cloth over the table to make it a little darker but I don't know if that sounds "natural". Seems to me that real trees in the forest don't get that. So I'm still pondering that.
I'm thinking this coming spring, if she is still as healthy as she is now, it will be time to trim her into some cool shape. But I've also read that spring might be the time to repot her. I don't know if doing both would be to traumatic for a baby tree. I thought if this watering thing turns out to be too much of a pain, she might go back into her original clay pot. I still have that available and may consider it if the glazed pot makes watering a pain. But I don't know if I can repot her and trim her both.
I guess I should start a new thread when I take pictures of Juni's new house. This one is getting kind of long. I'll try to do that by next weekend if the weather cooperates. We've had some terrible rainy weeks here lately. I still have water in my back yard. But Juni doesn't seem to mind, she seems to love her little house even if it is falling down around her.
It was purely by accident or good fortune that I discovered the perfect little "cottage" for Juni to live in. A simple cheap two-shelf stand with the upper shelf removed. So it was just a one-foot by one-foot table that stood about thirty inches high and Juni could live on the lower shelf, about ten inches from the ground. She is sitting right outside my glass sliding doors so I can keep a constant eye on her and play with her everyday when I get home from work.
But, her cheap little house was made of a vinyl covered particle board and I knew it wouldn't last outside. I figured I could get a few months at best but her house is already leaning to one side a bit as the particle board has soaked up so much rain that it is disintegrating.
But, all is GOOD! The design of the little table was perfect to allow her to get good morning sun while the table sides blocked the afternoon and evening sun. And the table top protected her from the Florida downpours. The table design was so perfect and I spent hours, days searching stores and online trying to find a plastic or some kind of replacement in a similar design. I finally gave up.
I went to Lowes and bought pressure treated lumber and I built Juni a new house! I built it out of one-by-sixes, paired to make it twelve inches deep and wide and she has a new tile roof. I just put my third and final coat of white paint on it and it's drying in my utility room. Tomorrow morning, I'll use clear silicone sealer to fill in all the joints and cracks so by tomorrow evening, I can move it out on the deck and Juni will move into her new house.
You'll have to wait until she's moved in to get pictures because it will be better when I have the sun on her. The last ordeal I have is the watering issue. I've found it so darn difficult to deal with the watering in this funky Florida weather. We've had a few cold nights but cold to us is when it drops to the forties overnight and the fifties in the daytime. I feel bad for the rest of the country that has been dealing with early deep-freezes. But I know these cooler nights makes it extra difficult to determine when Juni is thirsty because I try to stick my pinky all the way to the bottom of her pot to feel the dirt and how moist it is. The glazed pot seems to hold a lot of moisture and it "feels" wet even when it's not.
So I'm struggling with making sure I don't over-water her and I'm also thinking about giving up on trying to artificially create this period of dormancy. Like others have said, the weather just never cooperates. Instead, I'm hoping to treat her just like a healthy young baby tree that would be living out in the woods and just happened to always get the right amount of water and not have to deal with animals or debris that might hurt her. A normal tree would experience all the odd temperature swings and climate that a lot of trees in Florida do so I'm hoping that if I just make sure the pot doesn't freeze and crack, she'll do fine. I thought about draping a cloth over the table to make it a little darker but I don't know if that sounds "natural". Seems to me that real trees in the forest don't get that. So I'm still pondering that.
I'm thinking this coming spring, if she is still as healthy as she is now, it will be time to trim her into some cool shape. But I've also read that spring might be the time to repot her. I don't know if doing both would be to traumatic for a baby tree. I thought if this watering thing turns out to be too much of a pain, she might go back into her original clay pot. I still have that available and may consider it if the glazed pot makes watering a pain. But I don't know if I can repot her and trim her both.
I guess I should start a new thread when I take pictures of Juni's new house. This one is getting kind of long. I'll try to do that by next weekend if the weather cooperates. We've had some terrible rainy weeks here lately. I still have water in my back yard. But Juni doesn't seem to mind, she seems to love her little house even if it is falling down around her.
When you repot and root trim you would need to also reduce the canopy so as long as the plant is healthy before you repot it should take to pruning well.
I prefer to do my shaping gradually. I don't like branches getting too large since they leave a bigger scar and wiring should be done while the branches are still supple. I would think about the final shape you want and start taking out the branches you won't need. Don't do too much, you can always cut more off, but you can't put them back. "Nana" Junipers make good cascades and semi cascading bonsai.
I prefer to do my shaping gradually. I don't like branches getting too large since they leave a bigger scar and wiring should be done while the branches are still supple. I would think about the final shape you want and start taking out the branches you won't need. Don't do too much, you can always cut more off, but you can't put them back. "Nana" Junipers make good cascades and semi cascading bonsai.
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DDMcKenna
- Senior Member
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:10 pm
- Location: Florida, USA, just north of Daytona Beach
I like the "Cascading" idea and was thinking about that. I figured doing a little at a time would be less traumatic.
When you cut away a limb, do you put anything on the cut tip or leave it open and exposed?
I've seen larger trees trimmed and seen people use some kind of sealant on the stump left behind.
When you cut away a limb, do you put anything on the cut tip or leave it open and exposed?
I've seen larger trees trimmed and seen people use some kind of sealant on the stump left behind.
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rainbowgardener
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 25279
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: TN/GA 7b
Sealing tree wounds is in general controversial. I think the modern trend is not to do it. Here's a thread where it was discussed, in regard to (non-bonsai) fruit trees:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/vi ... ds#p345913
Here's a nice discussion of it with regard to bonsai:
https://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/ ... trees.html
(It does read like it was typed on a cell phone with automatic correction. "Conifers in general will not rot easily because they have the best protestant already, which is raisin" it means best protection, which is resin. ) He has an interesting take, that sometimes he uses wound sealant because he WANTS the wound to rot and hollow out, and the sealant promotes that.
Bonsai experts around here, what do you do?
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/vi ... ds#p345913
Here's a nice discussion of it with regard to bonsai:
https://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/ ... trees.html
(It does read like it was typed on a cell phone with automatic correction. "Conifers in general will not rot easily because they have the best protestant already, which is raisin" it means best protection, which is resin. ) He has an interesting take, that sometimes he uses wound sealant because he WANTS the wound to rot and hollow out, and the sealant promotes that.
Bonsai experts around here, what do you do?
If you pinch off the branches you don't need when they are small you won't have much of a scar. Otherwise, concave cutters are used to trim off nubs. There are several tools for bonsai. You may be able to find those at a bonsai club. Concave cutters, copper wire of various thickness, scissors, turntable, a set of screens, tweezers, root rakes ( I use an old fork with the tines bent into a slight curve), wire cutters are some of the tools in the bonsai tool bag. Some of them like the rake and the pruners you can find substitutes, but concave cutters come in different sizes for different sized trees are not so easy to find. You can find mini tools at the hardware or medical supply houses are a great place for large tweezers and scalpels from either medical or art stores.
I don't like to trim off main branches, it is hard to make a tree look natural after that, so I like to identify my main branches early. Sometimes things happen and you have to or want to change the shape, but I have killed more trees attempting a lightening strike than I want to admit to. And filing the stump takes a lot of time and patience.
There is no rush to start trimming since the plant is still very young. But, you should start to really look at the tree and decide what direction you want it to go. When a bonsai is trimmed, it isn't chopped willy nilly. The artist spends a lot of time looking at the tree and what effect each branch contributes and which do not. Also what direction the growth will take after the branches are removed. If you want to make the trunk more interesting it should be wired while the branches are still supple using an appropriate gauge of wire and carefully bending the branches. If you study bonsai there are patterns to the placement and angle of the branches. The trunk is actually one of the most interesting aspects of bonsai and a lot of attention is paid to showing off the branches and trunk. Wires should be removed before they cut into the trunk.
I don't like to trim off main branches, it is hard to make a tree look natural after that, so I like to identify my main branches early. Sometimes things happen and you have to or want to change the shape, but I have killed more trees attempting a lightening strike than I want to admit to. And filing the stump takes a lot of time and patience.
There is no rush to start trimming since the plant is still very young. But, you should start to really look at the tree and decide what direction you want it to go. When a bonsai is trimmed, it isn't chopped willy nilly. The artist spends a lot of time looking at the tree and what effect each branch contributes and which do not. Also what direction the growth will take after the branches are removed. If you want to make the trunk more interesting it should be wired while the branches are still supple using an appropriate gauge of wire and carefully bending the branches. If you study bonsai there are patterns to the placement and angle of the branches. The trunk is actually one of the most interesting aspects of bonsai and a lot of attention is paid to showing off the branches and trunk. Wires should be removed before they cut into the trunk.
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DDMcKenna
- Senior Member
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:10 pm
- Location: Florida, USA, just north of Daytona Beach
Thank you both for the great information and resources to additional information.
@imafan26, I really appreciate the approach you suggest. It gives me a lot of confidence that I don't have to make an absolute decision immediately. I do want to be gradual with any approach. And I like the idea of making the trunk a distinctive part of the overall sculpture.
@rainbowgardener, thank you, those are great links and I'll take plenty of time to read them all. But please, I know it's just a friggin' tree and a million of them succumb to weed-whackers. It's not like my kids or anything, but it is "alive" and I have a healthy respect for anything God gives life to. It's just my nature to put my heart and soul into anything I do. And, I think I mentioned it before, it's the first thing I ever tried to grow.
Anyway, the silicone is curing rapidly so it won't be long now. I have a couple appointments and after that, I plan on moving Juni into her new home. I'm really excited about that.
@imafan26, I really appreciate the approach you suggest. It gives me a lot of confidence that I don't have to make an absolute decision immediately. I do want to be gradual with any approach. And I like the idea of making the trunk a distinctive part of the overall sculpture.
@rainbowgardener, thank you, those are great links and I'll take plenty of time to read them all. But please, I know it's just a friggin' tree and a million of them succumb to weed-whackers. It's not like my kids or anything, but it is "alive" and I have a healthy respect for anything God gives life to. It's just my nature to put my heart and soul into anything I do. And, I think I mentioned it before, it's the first thing I ever tried to grow.
Anyway, the silicone is curing rapidly so it won't be long now. I have a couple appointments and after that, I plan on moving Juni into her new home. I'm really excited about that.