Seedling shaping?

[BewilderedGreenyO.o]

Alright.. I don't know if there is a topic on this yet or not so please direct me to the right place if there is cause I didn't even know what to type in the search to look it up.

So basically the past 3 or 4 months I think its been, I've been growing a jacaranda and chinaberry tree from seed for bonsai as I couldn't seem to find any nursery stock and seeds came more readily. I knew the wait I'd be in for.

What I was wondering though is if it is to early to start training them. I get worried that if I don't do something to add curve to the trunk now that it will be to hard to get it to curve later on. I'm not looking for a large sized "finished result" <-- I say that lightly as I know bonsai are never "finished" I'm aiming for smaller bonsai as I can't see myself lugging around large bonsai everywhere I go. I'm thinking the regular typical bonsai is around 12inches tall or less right? I will post pictures for you to see what I'm working with

Chinaberry
[img]https://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt261/NySnap/Plants/P1010171.jpg[/img]

Jacaranda
[img]https://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt261/NySnap/Plants/P1010168-1.jpg[/img]

[Gnome]

BewilderedGreenyO.o,

I get worried that if I don't do something to add curve to the trunk now that it will be to hard to get it to curve later on.

If you simply curve the trunk now with wire and then grow branches out you will have a curvy tree with no taper and it will always look immature. If, instead, you grow it out for a while and then cut it back the new growth will be smaller (taper) and will also have a new direction (movement). I don't know how either species responds to hard pruning so take the above as a general statement until you find out.

Another trick to get taper is to use sacrafice branches. These are temporary branches that are allowed to grow wild for a time in order to thicken the portion of the trunk below. Later they are cut away and new branches that are in scale are grown. By using sacrafice branches and cutting back periodically (essentially a sacrafice leader) you slowly build taper and movement. Encourage the low branches to grow, don't make the beginners mistake of pruning them away. One of them may eventually become your new leader, others can serve as sacrafice branches.

Perhaps most important right now is the arrangement of the roots. It's never too early to begin improving them in order to have a decent nebari in the future. At the next repotting examine the roots and begin choosing which can stay and which must go. Untangle the remaining roots which should resemble the spokes of a wheel, arranged radially and all on the same level. A broader, flatter pot/box is preferable to encourage a shallow root system, where a tall one forces the roots to dive rather than spread.

Sorry this reply wanders a bit but this is a very broad subject that, unfortunately, not much has been written about. I'm still learning as I go.

Norm

[BewilderedGreenyO.o]

ThankYou so much for your reply Gnome! I love how detailed you are, the way you explain it really helps me to wrap my mind around the technique. I am so glad I questioned this before I tried anything.

Next time I re pot it I'll be sure to untangle the roots as you said and will try to make sure I have a more shallow pot for it to grow in... Not a bonsai pot but rather a tray of some sort?

I will try to remember to take photos of the roots next time I re pot them. I haven't had much luck re potting plants, the only one that survived after messing with its roots was my boxy. Guess we'll see how my jacaranda and chinaberry do with it but since they are still young and vigorous they may take it better.

I've read that jacaranda don't take well to pruning just because when branches are trimmed or removed, they have a tendency to produce new branches which grow virtually upright at 90 degrees to other branches. However, I have seen photos of jacaranda bonsai that look fine.. so I figure I could give it a go.

China berry...I read take well to pruning.. but there really doesn't seem to be much information on them as far as bonsai goes. But I'm always up for a challenge. I'm sure with patience they will both turn out great.

[derkap10]

Hi BG,

Very nice plants from seed. Don't know too much about the Chinaberry but I think the Jacaranda would look nice with just a straight trunk. Just my humble opinion.

[BewilderedGreenyO.o]

Thanks Derkap I'm very happy with how they have grown. I think the Chinaberry I have has already added its own natural curve while growing.. which definitely gives me something to work with. The Jacaranda I think will look great no matter what is done to it with the exception of the pruning issue. You are right Its such a gorgeous tree in general that curved trunk or straight trunk it is going to look fabulous. Its gunna be great

[BewilderedGreenyO.o]

A broader, flatter pot/box is preferable to encourage a shallow root system, where a tall one forces the roots to dive rather than spread.
Norm

Was just wondering if any of you could provide an example of a container like this that you would use. Thanks

[Phil L.R]

Well, I usually buy medium bowls from cheap shops and drill holes in them to suit as bonsai pots, but you can use normal pots too.

[Gnome]

BewilderedGreenyO.o,

[url=https://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=potsui8.jpg][img]https://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1989/potsui8.th.jpg[/img][/url]
From left to right:

1. Nursery Zelkova in a wooden growing box.
2. Collected Burning Bush in a cut down milk crate.
3. Beech in a large pond basket.
4. Nursery Juniper in a cut down kitty litter container.
5. Collected Boxwood in a colander.
6. Collected Forsythia in some sort of nursery flat.
7. Nursery Azalea in a larger plastic pot.

Norm

[majed]

china berry grow very fast,if you cut it it will make new bud and start growning.(please keep in mind I m living in pakistan don't know about your climate) I am training three china berry plants as bonsai two are in ground and one in pot.
try to give the shape to trunk right now,because china berry will be hard to train after.

[Pocano]

I know this is an older conversation, but hoping for some advice from you all. I have 3 young jacarandas in one pot, 3 chinaberry in one pot and 1 chinaberry alone in yet another pot. My goal is to keep these trees surviving log-term each winter inside the house, and set them outside during the summer. I live in zone 3. I would like these to branch out instead of just growing upwards, concerned that topping them will kill them, and if safe, not certain how to prune successfully for that purpose.

[applestar]

I’m not a Bonsai hobbyist but I like to tinker, and I have what I call “Bonsai wannabes” of different materials. I have found that easiest way to get side branches to grow without topping with most plants, is to bend younger, more flexible stem/branch over so that the tip of it is lower than the top of the arch. You can wrap with wire for stiffer, more resistant to bending branches/stems that need gradual, gentle coaxing — if you are not sure, go easy on them. I keep breaking Rosemary that I’m trying to style into “Wind-swept Pine Bonsai” form — or you can just tie it down and secure to a stake or a wire wrapped around below the rim of the pot, etc.

The “apical dominance” characteristic of plants causes growth hormones to stimulate new growths at the highest point — in this case the arch. After they are sufficiently grown, you can select for the best to keep and style, and also cut off the remainder above the new growths.

[Pocano]

I know this is an older conversation, but hoping for some advice from you all. I have 3 young jacarandas in one pot, 3 chinaberry in one pot and 1 chinaberry alone in yet another pot. My goal is to keep these trees surviving log-term each winter inside the house, and set them outside during the summer. I live in zone 3. I would like these to branch out instead of just growing upwards, concerned that topping them will kill them, and if safe, not certain how to prune successfully for that purpose. Welcoming any help from you all, Would really like to see what BewilderedGreenyO.o has to offer here and interested in their results with Jacaranda and Chinaberry bonsai.

[rainbowgardener]

I have never grown chinaberry, but I suspect you could just chop it off at whatever point you want it to branch. It is known as a noxious invasive weed. It readily survives being chopped off at ground level and springs right back up.