airhiver
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Sick bonsai Help Please-(Juniper)

Hi,
I have a juniper bonsai which has started to dry. There are no more new green buds; the leaves are still green but dry and falling. The bonsai is only 2 years (rather small). I have been watering it 2 times a week w/ misting a little. I put the tree on the window to get sunlight but hesitate to now since the weather is cold now. Should I buy a plant light or is there any way of saving it?? Also do bonsai go through cycles?


kdodds
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Juniper bonsai only go through this cycle once, when they die. If the leaves are crisp and falling off, it's already too late to save. For future reference, junipers will fail indoors, virtually without exception. If you're looking for an indoor tree, I can make a few recommendations.

airhiver
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kdodds wrote:Juniper bonsai only go through this cycle once, when they die. If the leaves are crisp and falling off, it's already too late to save. For future reference, junipers will fail indoors, virtually without exception. If you're looking for an indoor tree, I can make a few recommendations.
Is there a reason why they don't live well? In the past I had a bonsai living in doors for several years then had random root fungi ... What are you recommendation? Thanx

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Gnome
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airhiver,
Is there a reason why they don't live well? In the past I had a bonsai living in doors for several years then had random root fungi
Junipers are not difficult to grow as long as you give them the conditions they require. Specifically, Junipers do not do well indoors. There are other species that should not be kept indoors, perhaps this is part of the problem you had with the other trees as well.
What are you recommendation?
Unfortunately, by the time Junipers get like this they are already in severe distress. If you want to grow indoors take kdodds up on his offer of suggestions, he has more experience with suitable species than I.

Norm

kdodds
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Ficus species are great indoor trees for beginners, generally very forgiving. I've found that Lavender Star Flower (Grewia occidentalis) is also VERY easy. Some others that I would place in this category are Barbados Cherry (Malpighia glabra), Brush Cherry (Eugenia myrtifolia), and Chilean Myrtle (Luma apiculata). Not only for their hardiness indoors, but for their ease of styling as well, have I recommended these. Schefflera arboricola, Aralia species, and others are also hardy, but styling some of them can be difficult. If you specifically want something pine-like, the only "easy" tree suitable for growing indoors that comes to mind is Japanese Yew (Podocarpus spp.), but the leaves on these trees can be large enough to prohibit the traditional shohin sized trees most beginners seem to prefer.

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bonsaiboy
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I have never worked with tropical conifers before, but depending on the light you can provide your trees with, you could grow a Podocarpus gracilior for low light, or if you have high light conditions a tropical pine might get by (Pinus caribaea, Pinus hondurensis). But as I've said, I've never tried growing those types before, so I know nothing about there bonsai requirements (other than temp., probably about the same as other conifers, I'd guess).

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bewildered_nmsu
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...Just a thought, and I hope I'm not being to presumptuous, but...it seems that the vast majority of topics in the bonsai forum are sick mallsai posts. Perhaps there should be another forum on the site devoted to sick bonsai. Call it "Sick Bonsai Help" or "Beginner Bonsai Help" perhaps. That way the Bonsai forum can be devoted to people's new projects and ideas. No disrespect intended for beginners in the art. I wish you all the best (and you will find the best advice on this forum). Again, I hope I'm not being to presumptuous.

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Gnome
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bewildered_nmsu,
I hope I'm not being to presumptuous, but...it seems that the vast majority of topics in the bonsai forum are sick mallsai posts. Perhaps there should be another forum on the site devoted to sick bonsai. Call it "Sick Bonsai Help" or "Beginner Bonsai Help" perhaps.
Not too presumptuous at all, thanks for the suggestion I'll make sure the Webmaster sees your post.

Norm

kdodds
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bonsaiboy wrote:I have never worked with tropical conifers before, but depending on the light you can provide your trees with, you could grow a Podocarpus gracilior for low light, or if you have high light conditions a tropical pine might get by (Pinus caribaea, Pinus hondurensis). But as I've said, I've never tried growing those types before, so I know nothing about there bonsai requirements (other than temp., probably about the same as other conifers, I'd guess).
These are actually VERY good suggestions. Podocarpus spp. usually do very well indoors, but aren't really available just everywhere. But, the problem of providing Pines with enough light, humidity, and the right temperatures, remains. As well, pines are trickier to style. As I looked around for a pine that might work indoors, I discovered the Monterey Pine. In its natural range, the average temperature and temperature shifts really do not differ all that much from the average household if kept near a window. As well, humidity requirements are quite low, it being from a naturally drier environment. Light is not a problem for me, since I have a southward facing greenhouse window open to the east and west. But, I suspect for most this is not something that is redily available in their homes. And still, the styling of Pinus spp. remains an issue.

airhiver
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kdodds wrote:Ficus species are great indoor trees for beginners, generally very forgiving. I've found that Lavender Star Flower (Grewia occidentalis) is also VERY easy. Some others that I would place in this category are Barbados Cherry (Malpighia glabra), Brush Cherry (Eugenia myrtifolia), and Chilean Myrtle (Luma apiculata). Not only for their hardiness indoors, but for their ease of styling as well, have I recommended these. Schefflera arboricola, Aralia species, and others are also hardy, but styling some of them can be difficult. If you specifically want something pine-like, the only "easy" tree suitable for growing indoors that comes to mind is Japanese Yew (Podocarpus spp.), but the leaves on these trees can be large enough to prohibit the traditional shohin sized trees most beginners seem to prefer.
Thanks! I have 1 more quick question. All of your recommendations seem great, but I live in san antonio and normally I buy new bonsai's from the korean lady on the street (only junipers..) I havent been able to find a place to get more of a selection in town. Is there a web site that sells bonsais that you recommend?

thanx,
-D

kdodds
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Well, yes and no. Most "bonsai" you are going to buy are not going to be very long in training (if they're affordable). Junipers have the advantage (at least the ones commonly offered as mass market products) of actually growing in what most people see as a typical bonsai form. The trees I mentioned require some work, so mass marketers usually don't have them, or if they do, they're some twisted trunk imports that look nothing like an imitation of nature. Anyway, some do offer trees in training for a few years, but even here, you can probably do better with "raw" stock and a little pruning. For these reasons, I tend not to purchase bonsai online at all, preferring "starter plants". I use www.meehansminiatures.com a lot for starter plants. They do offer some trees, though I do not routinely look through them. E-bay is an option as well as there are several bonsai sellers on there. Take a look at www.bonsaiboy.com for Ficus and such and you should be able to then identify his wares everywhere (the guy's plastered all over the web). His trees are not a whole lot better than "mallsai", but they are better, and he does offer what you're looking for. My preference, however, would be for a more personal touch and more experience in a vendor. To be honest, most bonsai enthusiasts with a good deal of experience scowl when the bonsaiboy.com site is mentioned.

airhiver
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kdodds wrote: Take a look at www.bonsaiboy.com for Ficus and such and you should be able to then identify his wares everywhere (the guy's plastered all over the web).
After looking at the trees on line I have notice some of the plants have all kinds of little art things incorporated in to their trees. There looks to be moss or something growing on the soil of the trees. Is looks neat, but is this good for the tree and if it is ok: is there certain types that aren't ok?

Thanx,
-D

kdodds
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Most more advanced bonsai growers and artists tend to stay away from "mudmen" as they take away from the focus of the single statement that is the tree and pot, the bonsai. However, there are other arts similar to bonsai, like penjing, landscapes, where these kinds of things are suitable. As for moss, some don't like it, mostly because it obscures the soil's surface, and some do. The thing about moss, though, is that it will do well for some people, but not for others. If I knew why, I'd gladly say, but even in my trees' pots it's a finicky thing, even in the same location, same soil, etc. I prefer moss for the more "natural" look it lends to the overall picture.

Now that you've looked at the site, have you noticed anything peculiar? All of the trees, regardless of species, are the same, same potting, same styling, and all roughly the same size and age (meaning all young, not a specific year mark). This is a hallmark of mass production. Now, if you placed one of those tree against a tree of similar age/size/training that may go for double, triple, or quadruple the prices there, you should easily be able to pick out the work of higher quality. With that said, it's not a "looking down one's nose" statement. The simple fact of the matter is that if this is a hobby for you, if you're not so involved (or sometimes self-involved, self-important, and donwright condescending at times) as to call yourself an "artist", it does not really matter whether the tree you pick will win a ribbon or medal, whether you'll get a sense of self-validation from displaying it for others. What matters exclusively is whether or not you like it. So, if you see a tree you like and it's affordable to you and looks healthy (and is planted in a healthy fashion conducive to its continued health), go for it. I just wanted to make you aware of the reasons behind price differences online, and of what is available. ;)



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